Article in today’s Guardian about toilets and trans users.

[SausageOnAFork]

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/03/public-bathrooms-are-gender-identity-battlefields-what-if-we-just-do-it-right?__twitter_impression=true

I post without comment.

This is the first image I got for “women only cake”

Turns out the Queen is a T**f!

Of course she is. The Queen is the boss.

Let's take it to its logical conclusion: one set of lavatories for taking a shit and another for peeing.

I would love to hear Philips views on all this.

Sorry, I'm still struggling with 'women only cake things'. In my head I'm seeing him searching for the words, for something that he is massively excluded from, but can't decide how, why, or what it's even for.

But he just knows he doesn't get it.

Um, you know...they talk…and laugh an stuff. In the coffee area...you know... there's sometimes a Tupperware, or Valerie's patisserie box involved...whatsit called...er...a women only 'thing'...you know...with um cake. An' that.

Ova that is a weird choice for Spiked Online. Not everyone wants to comment in their real name or via Facebook. Maybe it’s somehow not economic for them to run it in the previous form?

Also that Guardian article in the OP. It’s the badly-thought-through, self centred and plaintive reasoning that only a very young, male-socialised person could come up with.

(Sorry I don’t want to offend other very young male socialised people who I know would spot the bullshit immediately but I don’t know how else to express what I mean..)

NAYMSPALT

I'm reminded of Ali G "is it because I is black" regarding the exclusion from "women-only cake things".

I would rather click on a Sun article than read the Guardian
And I’m a scouser.
What is the gist?

I find it hard to believe that Simona gets any sort of hassle in the gents. Silly.

I haven't had a problem in French loos, but, I have only experienced the limited facilities in restaurants, which have always been quite civilised. I agree the street and metro harrassment in Paris is grim.

WhatTheWatersShowedMe I'm giggling on a bus to this. Very funny.

So transmisogyny = not getting cake, where as actual misogyny, the boring old kind, = not being entitled to carry out your specifically female bodily functions without a bloke being present to poke fun.
Transmisogyny = only one woman saying hello, where as actual misogyny, the non special kind, = shouting no, on mass, at the top of your voices and being told to stfu.
Just thought I’d straighten that one out.

I have never had other women police my presentation in the toilets btw. I have a skinhead and only ever wear masculine clothes, yet I’ve never been challenged. It’s almost like people can tell what sex I am just by looking at me. Amazing that...

I would also not hold up French toilet provision as any model of..well, anything really. Urinals in corridors, the occasional persistent squat toilet, pissoirs (no female provision). I don't know where the idea that they are some mixed sex wonderland comes from? Not where I lived (SW).

French women don't like seeing al fresco male urination or walking past open urinals more than anyone else. French men are generally pretty content with provision though- so anyone that thinks everyone in France is happy with the loos clearly only asked men!

Misogyny= being forced to play a contact sport with a man who is bigger, stronger, faster and heavier than you and risking serious injury.

Transmisogyny= being upset that some women are jumping for joy at the prospect.

FFS.
We need a third space:
1)Toilet, (unisex)
2)Urinal, (unisex)
3)Female biology business.

Then anyone who needs their gender validating can do so in a unisex space with everyone else except those who need a space to deal with their female genitals and/or need for privacy.

And trouble is this is SO not about having a gender neutral space for toileting.

The whole point of this is getting in with those women where they're naked and vulnerable and really don't want you, so you get nice feelz about validation and power and control, and put those uppity bitches who won't mummy you properly and unconditionally at all times in their place.

I won't use gender neutral facilities. I did briefly in Brighton where they were the only option and I was desperate, I was very uncomfortable. I'd rather cede the space or use the gents where the decent and safe blokes will be hanging out, even if they will leave the toilet seat up.

I couldn't make it through the whole article but that person is very confused. On one hand gender is absolutely not about the clothes you wear and on the other hand non-binary people will be offended/ confused by a picture of a person wearing a dress?

I also love the way they have written this whole article about 'doing it right' and not actually given any kind of solution or different approach other than 'women accommodate me'. I love the way that trans people are willing to accept that men in men's toilets provide a threat to them (NAMALT of course) but that transwomen couldn't possible provide a threat to women?

Perhaps we just need to change the signs to a nice cock and balls and a vagina, so no one gets confused by what they are wearing.

What is a woman only cake thing? Has this person just walked in on a group of people eating cake and assumed it's bigotry, rather than people not including them! They might not have even not been involved, just not been in the kitchen when cake was presented! Says it all really. I wish real misogyny was just men eating cake without me!

@Knicknackpaddyflak - couldn't agree more.

This is a horrendous and deeply rooted injustice. All these years at my womens only cake things I didn’t stop to think about the men or non-binary people who might also want to be part of the womens only cake things. Yes, a friend turned up with a cake and said ‘oh, I’ve made cake, do have some’ (and 9 times out of 10 this was a woman who had thoughtfully brought cake in), but we thoughtlessly and ‘c*s-normatively’ did not take the time to set up a transgender flag and sign letting other people with other genders know there was cake available. No wonder they felt excluded as we had the temerity to chat to each other and not get out our red carpet for anyone who wandered into the break room and explain that they too were welcome to cake, even if they didn’t know the secret lippy application signal we use to communicate in toilets.

Privilege well and truly checked.

To take this thread to the next level, I believe there is a device called a 'she-pee', which would allow women to use a urinal.

(Though I don't know how comfortable they'd be using such a thing in public - if observed they could be left feeling quite she-peeish).

I believe that there is a device called toilet seats that all humans use regardless of biological sex.

History of Urinals.

I'm astounded at this: The British Association of Urological Surgeons.

www.baus.org.uk/museum/165/a_brief_history_of_the_male_urinal

It's as if only men need urological surgery.

Anyway, when it came to women, of course the history is different.

www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

It's as if women don't pee.

mobile.twitter.com/simonacastricum/status/1047014582622019584

Oh. Another one who announces on social media (and the whole world) the state of their genitals.

Yet we are the ones who are apparently obsessed with what is in someone's pants 🤔

They announce their genitals through their surname. “Castricum”.

Now is that nomanitive determinism, or a chosen name, I wonder?

Of course the queen is a big old terf - she's not dim! Given the hoo ha most places have arranging the perfect toilet for HRH when she goes visiting - can you just imagine her face seeing a "non binary" placard on the door?

Fwiw I'm not a big fan of cake. I'll pack my she-wee...

A woman only cake thing would be...a party? People aren't legally required to invite anyone to those if they don't want to.

As a goth I've know lots of men who wear more makeup and flouncier clothes than the author of that article, and none of them tried to demand access to the women's loos.