The City of London consultation didn’t go quite as they hoped...

[SwearyG]

Minutes of their meeting discussing it here and the two relevant pages attached as screen grabs.

They had 15k odd people fill it out, and in view of that are going to get professional analysis. I don’t think it’s because of the numbers, it’s because they didn’t get to sneak it through without anyone noticing. It’s interesting that they weren’t going to do this in the first place.

They are going to do an equality impact assesment (something they said they wouldn’t to me on the phone which they then backtracked slightly on via email).

They misrepresent EA 2010 saying you can’t discriminate against transsexuals. Now of course you can’t discriminate, but you can exclude them if proportionate/legitimate.

They do accept that sex based protections are a thing.

They have decided not to report to members until after the government publishes the results of their own consultation.

So the people with a vested interest in the City of London thought they’d get away with sneaking this through without it being noticed. ManFriday fought this super hard, and will continue to ensure that women and girls are protected properly in any policy the city enacts. I wonder if they wish they’d removed the consultation and written it properly in plain English like we asked now

I was talking to a friend from London the other day, asked her about this because I know she has been to swim at the Ladies Pond this summer.
Me: So was there a huge sign up outside the Ladies Pond from the City of London Corporation highlighting the consultation for all of the pond users?
Her: No. What consultation?

Chatty that was brought to their attention several times but to no avail. It is noted in my City of London consultation file. Thank god for my aversion to talking to people and tendency to use email.

ChattyLion Maybe your friend might send a brief email about this?

I will ask her. Email to complaints?
www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/about-our-website/Documents/complaint_form.pdf

Should she be calling for this bullshit exercise to be re-run properly?

Or reopened for comments with a prominent sign put about the consultation been put up at every single one of the Corporation of London’s venues that would be affected by self ID- (which would be essentially ALL of them) ?

Because otherwise the Corporation of London really can’t say they have captured the views of their users on this, can they?

Who is more important to hear from than their service users on the ground?

CoL could also offer a specific code on this prominent sign at each venue, for which venue it is that the person is responding about, which could enable segmenting of the responses they receive maybe?

I can see that a specific code could be passed around on social media but there must be some way of balancing the views of female swimmers who actually use the Ladies’ Pond against TRAs in other countries who happened to have spotted this on Twitter or anyone else?

SwearyG may have a specific address but I would think a simple email to complaints given she had no idea despite swimming at The Hampstead Heath women's pond.

It is shocking isn’t it? Almost as though they didn’t want to hear from the women this would affect.

What's with the 'Only 70% are UK Nationals". What are they implying???

Well EU citizens living in the UK currently have the right to vote in local elections.

That comment coming from City of London of all authorities doesn't sit well.

I wonder if the 'only' refer to people living in the UK and the other 30% were the American TRAs rallied to the cause?

I'm a actually surprised that as many as 70% were UK nationals.

Where I used to work I was generally in a small minority of Brits - even when I worked for British companies. The City is like that and as for people who live there - loads of city workers have properties close to their work.

#ManFriday went down to the ponds in the first weeks of the consultation and there was nothing there. I'm sure this was one of the (many)issues that SwearyG has raised with the City of London Corp.

The more people who have missed out on commenting about something that will affect them the better.

The survey has been widely promoted on 'trans-twitter'

Jane Fae's involvement with Hampstead Women's Pond:
(extract)
"Jane Faye was early in her transition from male to female when she was accosted before entering the women's changing area. It was a Saturday morning, and she was getting ready to step into the pool with her then 5-year-old son. A man appeared out of nowhere and threatened her.

“This man just hogged the way. And said, 'You're not going in there.' And I said, "Why not?" And he just said, 'Well, I'm going to hit you if you do,'” said Faye, who lives north of London.

It was a terrifying moment. "And I think [among] the various lessons I learned very early on in transition is that men were dangerous.”

So, when Faye first heard about the Hampstead Heath Ladies' Pond, a women-only swimming pond in the middle of London, she assumed it was a safe space for all women, including transgender women like herself. “The general feeling is that at present, at least in this country, trans people have rights,” she said." (continues)

“There are some people who are very, very perturbed by the idea of trans women swimming here," said Mayhew [co-chair of the Kenwood Ladies' Pond Association] , standing near the edge of the pond on a warm afternoon. But she's quick to point out that trans women are allowed in the Ladies' Pond, despite what people may think. In fact, there's a law that says so. It's called the Equality Act, and it prohibits discrimination — like not letting trans women into public spaces.

She said she didn't want to dismiss people's serious concerns.

“I have dealt with correspondence from people who have suffered sexual violence at the hands of men who have been very scared by the idea of what they perceive as men swimming here," said Mayhew. But she says that trans women also experience violence.

”I mean, if you look at the research on the experiences of transgender women, they are often people who have been victims of violence and abuse and bullying." (continues)
www.pri.org/stories/2018-09-25/transgender-women-are-women-organizers-say-after-controversy-over-women-only-pond

Nice work lads.

I'll stump you a craft beer to celebrate if I get the pleasure of bumping into you at any events.

Isn't there a mixed bathing pool in Hampstead?

There is a mixed pond, Fekko, it doesn’t provide validation for men who call themselves women.

Yes there is.

May 2018 thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3261705-Turns-out-Hampstead-swimming-ponds-are-single-SEX-after-all

Arf, exactly right Sweary re validation. That's our true purpose in life.

Late to this but 'only' 70%? 70% is pretty clearly a majority. Are they saying the views of the other 30% don't matter because they're not British and so presumably not as woke as the Corporation?

Nice work on this ManFriday - without you, there wouldn't have been nearly as many responses as there were.

Thank you Man Friday, you wonderful women.

You are protected if you have undergone, are undergoing or intend to undergo a process of reassigning sex. Not if you wear a frock.

So how do you prove that a guy who slings on a frock doesn't "intend to undergo a process"?

Not sure how one demonstates an intention.

I complained about the survey but never got a response. I will chase up.

I was clear that I was a female Londoner who enjoyed swimming outdoors (Tooting, Brockwell and the odd visit to the Serpentine), and so was concerned about the prescedent. Having to share changing rooms and showers would put me off. (And you really need a shower to warm up in winter, otherwise it can be dangerous.)

I am concerned that there was no attempt to consult with users, or the user group. This is Consultation 101. They really should write in and ask that the views of their members are taken on board. Especially if they were not formally informed of the consultation. They are the people who will be directly affected.

Late to this but 'only' 70%? 70% is pretty clearly a majority. Are they saying the views of the other 30% don't matter because they're not British and so presumably not as woke as the Corporation?

Given that the City of London couldn't fucking function and would grind to a complete halt without its immigrant and non-national workers, I think it's a pretty racist point for that report to make...

I took it that way too

I contributed to this consultation. Like others, I wasn't really hopeful of a positive outcome and that I didn't really have a voice in an environment where the TRAs have literally shut down all dissent.
This is a great result. I wish I had the courage of the Men Fridays and Sweary (and also Posie Parker) for bringing this stuff into the public domain.
For all those who have contributed to this consultation, I urge you to complete the government one on GRA - I did it this afternoon.
A massive gold star to those who brought this to the mainstream.

Great news. Perhaps people would be willing to complete this one? So many ‘consultations’ that few seem to know about! www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/pages/consultation-in-focus

Fantastic work, ManFriday!
Edward Lord can stick that in his nonbinary pipe and smoke it.