The City of London consultation didn’t go quite as they hoped...

[SwearyG]

Minutes of their meeting discussing it here and the two relevant pages attached as screen grabs.

They had 15k odd people fill it out, and in view of that are going to get professional analysis. I don’t think it’s because of the numbers, it’s because they didn’t get to sneak it through without anyone noticing. It’s interesting that they weren’t going to do this in the first place.

They are going to do an equality impact assesment (something they said they wouldn’t to me on the phone which they then backtracked slightly on via email).

They misrepresent EA 2010 saying you can’t discriminate against transsexuals. Now of course you can’t discriminate, but you can exclude them if proportionate/legitimate.

They do accept that sex based protections are a thing.

They have decided not to report to members until after the government publishes the results of their own consultation.

So the people with a vested interest in the City of London thought they’d get away with sneaking this through without it being noticed. ManFriday fought this super hard, and will continue to ensure that women and girls are protected properly in any policy the city enacts. I wonder if they wish they’d removed the consultation and written it properly in plain English like we asked now

I read about the consultation on Mumsnet. I'm so pleased to see this result. Well done everyone.

I completed the survey and posted earlier today on here about the meting summary. It was interesting reading. But what I am not quite understanding is how the US TRA's completed one of the questions - about either working or living in the City? I would like to correlate the answers to the question about "gender" to the nationality and then to the work/live. It should be possible to see how many non British trans people supposedly either "live" or "work" in the City? The numbers living in the City are available I believe through Census information.

It asked about using any of the facilities as well, e.g. Hampstead Ponds or the Barbican Centre, so you don't need to live/work in the City, just use one or more of the facilities listed in the consultation. However, I don't know how you'd be able to check if people were telling the truth - if you just say you are a user of any of the places then that can't really be checked, I guess?

I'm sure the TRAs could find a suitable postcode to put down. Or could say they think that what London does is important to them too, as being a step on the journey. Or somesuch.

@BingBongSong I have the mankini packed away, ready to shake threateningly at the CoL if they appoint a TRA muppet for their professional analysis. No one wants to see THAT again!

I’d just like to point out that Sweary has spent a vast amount of time going to and fro with the CoL this summer to try and get them to run a decent consultation instead of this toilet paper, and contacting various affected organisations, and pounding the streets in the pouring rain handing out flyers and putting up posters to bring it to people’s attention. The woman deserves a medal.

I’d just like to point out that Sweary has spent a vast amount of time going to and fro with the CoL this summer to try and get them to run a decent consultation instead of this toilet paper, and contacting various affected organisations, and pounding the streets in the pouring rain handing out flyers and putting up posters to bring it to people’s attention. The woman deserves a medal.

This ^^

No need for a medal. The city is my home. Well it’s not, but it’s the one place I have any important family history (army bear with no home town) and I was married there so it’s very special to me. I’m very protective of it.

We all have to do what we can in this battle, and this was one of my “cans”.

Whilst it’s far from certain I think this (hidden) response from the city is encouraging and I think we can be quietly encouraged, whilst keeping up the pressure. It shows we can make a difference.

SwearyG You are a . Thank you.

She does. In a just society, an OBE or MBE for services on behalf of women, aka adult females.

I think we can be quietly encouraged, whilst keeping up the pressure. It shows we can make a difference.

Just because the survey monkey consultation has closed. People can still send comment or complaint to the City of London Corporation should they wish to.

Indeed no reason why people should not complain about the fact the consultation passed them by.

Enough complaints, and the City will feel they either leave the status quo or to rerun the consultation, with a proper attempt to capture the views of existing users and enbalance.

My advice would be to wait for the outcome of the current Government policy review, rather than try to write policy themselves.

It worries me somewhat how much is now hanging on the Government policy review - particularly if they take the cowards way out and boot it into the long grass. The creep towards achieving it by stealth has gone so far now that it's taking us pointing out that they're no longer acting in keeping with the law for them to pause at all.

Thank you ManFriday women for all your work with this

The creep towards achieving it by stealth has gone so far now that it's taking us pointing out that they're no longer acting in keeping with the law for them to pause at all.

Its not sustainable for the likes of John Bercow etc to prevent Westminster discussing the consequences.

Victora Atkins MP (Women's Minister) has spoken out about concerns for children & a government review has being announced

David Davies MP has spoken out for female prisoners and the appalling treatment of Linda Bellos and Venice Allen.

Liz Truss MP tweeted support for MN allowing free and civil speech.

Nadine Dories MP has stated she is a woman: adult human female and challenged the twitter mob to 'come at her'

Sam Gyimah MP (University Minister) made a significant government announcement on coming into post about how free speech must be protected on campus.

Kate Hooey MP stated concern for Girl Guides' policy

Times today: Trans movement has been hijacked by bullies and trolls
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-movement-has-been-hijacked-by-bullies-and-trolls-lwl3s73vj?shareToken=466434b3bd6e3e57449f3911d2232ded

Spectator:
'If MPs can’t debate a rapist in a woman’s jail, politics has failed'
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/the-state-has-failed-karen-whites-victims/

R0 that's a comforting list, thank you

Knicknackpaddyflak

What is needed is for more MPs from different parts of the Conservative Party and also from all other parties to recognise this is a cross-party issue and to start standing up too.

These MPs will not be 're-educated' they can however gain a great deal of political capital from being the ones to stand up.

It is worth also being mindful of where they are positioned on other issues eg within the Conservative Party, Brext/Remain

Thank you for that list R0wan

If you don’t mind, I will mention it to my MP so they don’t feel so alone if they speak up.

Yes it is very comforting to know there are still MPs who can act on principle and will speak up to support women.

(And I write that as someone follows Nadine Dorries’ position on women’s rights to abortion with my eyebrows somewhere up in my hair)

Well done everyone especially SwearyG.

David Davies MP is all over this. He came Westminster Magistrates Court to support Linda and Venice and talked to lots of us. He says he absolutely will not be silenced about this issue, and doesn't care about negative impact on his career in government because this is more important. I hadn't realised that the reason he got involved in the first place is that Dr Wobbly is in his constituency.

Dr Wobbly

Thank you for this

Very interesting. Especially the fact that 14% of the people who responded identify as trans, which makes it glaringly obvious that information making the general public aware of the consultation was distributed very unevenly.

Another fervent vote of thanks to the ManFriday women for boldly going where no woman had gone before, in a manly fashion. In a hundred years time classes of school children will be filing past that famous mankini in the Museum of Feminism and gazing in starry eyed admiration at the newspaper photographs.

This is really pleasing.

I filled in the totally bogus consultation (whilst raging).

I also wrote to the person (alderman?) with responsibility for the Code of Conduct to ask how they planned to tackle Edward Lord's blatant breaches of the Code of Conduct (his use of hate speech, and his stated intention to disregard unfavourable survey responses and stupidly, putting the above on twitter for all to see).

I also wrote formally to the Corporation Chief Executive who replied first vaguely positively and then when I pushed on what precisely they were going to do about the breaches of the Code of Conduct, sent a brush off letter.

This was only last week so I'm very pleased to see that they've seen the way this is going and kicked it all into the long grass.

But I'm concerned that EL has still apparently not been reprimanded for his conduct which is clearly in breach of the Code of Conduct. What do people think?

By the way, props and all other good things to the indefatigable SwearyG and the ManFriday Crew who are awesome and also my top favourite new rap duo

rightreckoner you jest but we did actually record a rap video over the summer. We’re saving it for a special occasion

I need to see that. Feminist rap is a thing I need in my life. You ladies are just brilliant.

SwearyG

This LGA guidance on holding targeted surveys might be useful:

www.local.gov.uk/our-support/guidance-and-resources/comms-hub-communications-support/resident-communications-2

An online survey advertised mainly on Twitter will throw up odd results. Instead they might have tried for a mix of an on-site consultation with users; a leaflet drop to nearby residents or questioning a sample of Heath users in part to discover why they don't use the facilities and whether the proposed change in policy would make them more likely to use them; perhaps a talk with managers of similar facilities (the Serpentine, other London Lidos); and targeted consultation with groups representing local transexual and transgender people.

When evaluating the survey they should do it in the context of the City's aims, plus any covenants attached to the ponds themselves. (I bet there are some; for example a while ago, but Lambeth came completely unstuck by forgetting about some covenants attached to a Victorian cematory.) Aims will include promoting health and well being within the wider public as well as newer policies on transgender accessibility. If the survey suggests that the revised policy will cause them to lose existing users, plus deter potential new ones, they need to balance different interests, or budget for adaptations, like new changing facilities, to design out potential problems.

I wonder if it is worth talking to the Local Government Association survey people to ask what can be done if local residents are very unhappy about the way a survey has been conducted. I would phone the switchboard and try and get the survey expert rather than any complaints team. PM me if you would like me to have a go, though I know far less than you. My locus is that I did complain about the survey but never got an answer.