Autism & Gender Dysphoria: No proven link

[pennydrew]

Well since the discussion that was part of another thread got removed, for some odd reason, I thought I would start a conversation on this. To clarify, when people say there is a link, they are not referring to any data or study involving diagnosed autistic people. I have checked. I have seen language like, ' autistic traits' and ' autism spectrum related issues' but nothing credible. I am very careful not to assume a genuine link exists simply because people say so. It seems to be trendy to 'identify as autistic', but that is incredibly insulting and appropriation of a poorly understood condition. My daughter gets very upset at the casual way people discuss this link as if it is real, as a way to use autism to get acceptance for something entirely different and an ideology she finds personally threatening to her own rights- both as a woman and autistic person.

we parents come from a secondary perspective

No. Neurotypicals come from a secondary perspective. If you are NT you will never know what it is like to be on the spectrum. And stop with the patronising bullshit.

Woman, I have been told by medical professionals involved with my family that a common trait in autistic teenage girls is a lack of interest in sex, indeed in my dd she finds the whole idea totally abhorrent. This trait will not be present in all, of course it won't (you know one person with autism etc) but it explains a lot for dd.

Tavi do provide a range of services btw, so they definitely do have the expertise for ASD diagnosis, the problem (I assume) is how it’s funded.

Children are referred to the gender clinic from all over the country, because it’s the only one, but if the GIC suspected a different diagnosis was more appropriate, or wanted to it to be screened for, presumably the child would have to be referred back to their own hometown CAMHS?

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/care-and-treatment/our-clinical-services/

A truly integrated multi-pathway diagnostic hub would surely be the best way of dealing with the current crop of ROGD kids? Problem is, the research would have to be done to prove the clinical need (and secure funding) and the research is being shut down by adults with a pro trans agenda.

It’s enough to make you cry.

Yes. It patronising and on the same level as "does she take sugar in her tea" talk that is so insulting.

I think I may be guilty of that with my earlier post quoting lady. I'm going to report it.

Woman, I have been told by medical professionals involved with my family that a common trait in autistic teenage girls is a lack of interest in sex,

I don't care if they told you the moon was made of green cheese. I am autistic. I have autistic friends. And none of us experience what you have described. But, hey. Don't take my word for it - I'm only autistic and only have first-hand experience of what it's like to be autistic.

And stop with the patronising bullshit

What was that for?

It's quite clear that OP doesn't want autistic voices heard on this thread and it's just another thread where autistic people are talked about rather than listened to. Same old same old.

But it was directed at me.

What have I done to offend?

I acknowledged that as a NT typical parent I had a secondary perspective ....?

At what point have I challenged the view of an autistic poster?

WomanAKAAdultHumanFemale

It is very true that NT's won't know what being autistic is like, and vice versa. My family describe it like speaking different languages. I don't think anyone here has been patronising. We are all striving to understand each other here and every parent of an autistic child I know spends their life trying very hard to not be patronising, not be insulting, not to anything wrong... and there are lots of rules. I decided in my home that I would be the one accommodating them, because they spend their lives in a world they continually have to adapt to and make sense of ( make order of chaos my husband says ). I think they need a break at home, so I am the one trying hard to make sure nothing creates a sensory overload here and I try my best not to be emotionally demanding and to give them plenty of time and space. I'm not saying this to get applause, but to give others a perspective of what parents and partners are thinking.

Woman you are being incredibly rude to people who have spenmt their entire lives supporting autistic children. What you experience as one autistic person is not representative of everyone. You have first hand experience of being you. Dd has first hand experience of being her. Many autistic teens, especially girls have difficulties expressing certain things. Thats not to say everyone will.

Please take a step back, you are not doing your cause any good.

I think it was directed at the OP MrB

Woman you are being incredibly rude to people who have spenmt their entire lives supporting autistic children. What you experience as one autistic person is not representative of everyone. You have first hand experience of being you. Dd has first hand experience of being her. Many autistic teens, especially girls have difficulties expressing certain things. Thats not to say everyone will.

Please take a step back, you are not doing your cause any good.

Also you are a grown adult We are talking about children who still need support and guidance and many of whom have not yet come to terms with either their diagnosis (or lack of it) or is is all very new to them still.

LadyBrain I am totally happy to hear from autistic people, but not rude and obnoxious people who attack me for no reason. You don't get a free pass to be rude.

Ok thanks Penny, that makes it clearer.

I have seen on social media memes along the line of "well of course autistic people are more likely to be trans we don't conform to society's silly rules"

I can see that annoying people.

I don't look at transwomen bios really so can't comment on it. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the new type of transwomen (rather than transsexuals) are appropriating autism seeing as number of them claim menstruatal cycles and menopause.

Don't forget that most autistic women here on mumsnet are also mums and most of us have autistic kids.

It's quite clear that OP doesn't want autistic voices heard on this thread and it's just another thread where autistic people are talked about rather than listened to. Same old same old.

Yes. Because NTs know more about being autistic than do autistic people so their voices are more important.

Thank you woman, that will go nicely with my cup of tea.

Aggressive, rude and obnoxious? Really?

Can you not see how offensive you are to the autistic women on this thread?

Pennydrew my post was not aimed at you. It was aimed at the attitude that autistic parents know more about autism than do those of with autism. My apologies if you were caught in the cross-fire.

AlexanderHamilton thank you. The rudeness is uncalled for. I spent 4 god damn hours in a meeting with unbelievably painful endometriosis and an extremely heavy period yesterday to try and help MY daughter who I PRIORITISE when it comes to autistic perspectives. She would know a lot more about what teenagers TODAY think and feel than anyone here. This is ridiculous

It's always hard to read the perspectives of allistic people when purporting to have expertise on autism, but especially hard when it's related to things I'm particularly interested in.

Please understand the very act of doing so can cause distress - probably to other MNers with autism.

None of us (grown adults that we are) are thick enough to think we were this educated or aware as children. But I do think a lived experience of autism is helpful with these kinds of discussions.

I really just came on to say that it isn't helpful to generalise on how girls present. I present in a very 'male' way and got a diagnosis very quickly because of this. One of my sons is much more able to mask and if indeed he is autistic (he is) he will struggle to get a diagnosis.

Really interesting discussion OP. Chicken and egg. After all, who’s to say that someone struggling with their identity doesn’t begin to exhibit traits similar to those seem in ASD as a consequence of not knowing which stereotypes and social expectations to conform to and comply with. This doesn’t however mean that are ASD - more that they are facing similar social dissonance.

Super - yes, ds presented more in a girl way and it was a huige battle to get any kind of diagnoses which is still not a full one but thankfully his new school (he was kicked out of his last one) have decided to make all the necessary adjustments and put in support regardless.

I am bothered by the proximity of LD trans ally fanatic April Preston to Autism Society in Manchester. It raises all sorts of questions about impartiality, ideology and political influences.