Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anne Sinnott vindicated - she was right!

114 replies

SwiftNC · 26/09/2018 01:14

Link to article

But we knew that anyway!

OP posts:
StrangeLookingParasite · 02/10/2018 00:40

"You can't tell by looking at someone if they're trans."

Oh dear.

SignMeUp · 02/10/2018 01:35

landmark decision - Legal Definition. n. A decision that is notable and often cited because it significantly changes, consolidates, updates, or effectively summarizes the law on a particular topic.

Language is POWERFUL!

Really needed this good news

Thank you all
And HUGE gratitude to Ann

ChiaraRimini · 02/10/2018 07:07

Another one checking in to say thank you and well done Ann Thanks

boldlygoingsomewhere · 02/10/2018 07:16

What is it with the appropriation of women with PCOS? As for the idea that people can’t tell the difference between butch women and a man...Hmm

Well done, Ann. I’m really pleased your stand bore fruit. We need more politicians like you.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/10/2018 07:16

Thank you Ann Flowers

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 07:29

This is really quite huge - Sarah and Zoe must be furious. Have those women supporting Sarah and protesting not realised how devious and dishonest Sarsh has been? It’s quite sinister. I hope a bigger media outlet picks this up and focuses on that.

RepealtheGRA · 02/10/2018 07:37

Sarah has convinced these women that as ‘ugly women’ they may be beaten up trying to use the toilet if ‘Sarah’ is not also allowed in the women’s. This is a truly breathtaking level of Misogyny (and internalised misogyny) and is definitely worthy of national press coverage.

arranfan · 02/10/2018 07:40

"You can't tell by looking at someone if they're trans."

StrangeLookingParasite - I do know what you mean, and this probably isn't what they meant in context. However, the Stonewall definition of trans is so broad that pretty much everyone comes under it - so, in a sense, no, nobody would know because pretty much everyone is, including anyone who is gender critical.

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/10/2018 08:47

Sarah has convinced these women that as ‘ugly women’

I was Shock about that - that poor woman Sad

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 08:57

Is this their recruitment and scaremongering tool? “If you have short hair and jeans on or if you arent pretty - you’re going to get targetted for being s man”

Why are these seemingly unbalanced, dishonest, bullying, weird folk getting into positions to make the rules which affect us all?

NotANotMan · 02/10/2018 08:58

What sarah means by 'you can't tell if someone is trans' is 'you can't tell who is biologically male' which is patently false

frazzled1 · 02/10/2018 09:00

Well done Ann Flowers

ahagwearsapointybonnet · 02/10/2018 09:03

All that hyperbole and rubbish about women being put at risk of getting beaten up, when Cambridge has basically just restored their policies to be in line with the law and with what applies in the entire rest of the UK Confused

Can't say we've seen an epidemic of ugly-woman-attacking anywhere else...

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 09:03

There are some fairly well known transwomen on twitter - their pictures all look fairly pasding - they also have video footage on youtube or on interviews - which gobsmackingly shows the opposite.

Ikeasucks · 02/10/2018 09:05

Yes, who exactly is going to beat up these ugly women or women with short hair using female loos? I say this as a late teen who was often mistaken for a boy.

Branleuse · 02/10/2018 09:10

You usually can tell if someone is trans. Im sure not always, but generally. Especially transwomen. I think it would be pretty shit evolutionarywise if we couldnt tell a male from a female easily

RepealtheGRA · 02/10/2018 09:13

I was shock about that - that poor woman sad

Glad it wasn’t just me who was shocked and upset by that.

What next? As a woman who wears a shit ton of make up, should I avoid public toilets in case I get mistaken for Ru Paul?

This is all just about policing woman’s appearance, same old, same old.

It also insults the intelligence of every Dad in the country to suggest that while waiting outside woman’s toilets for their daughters they’d be unable to differentiate between a man and a woman going in after them.

In fact that article insulted the entire population.

LangCleg · 02/10/2018 09:39

the single-sex exemption should be opt out not, as it is at present, opt in - and the opting out should only be exceptional

Yes, yes, yes!

StrangeLookingParasite · 02/10/2018 10:42

Hah, by the Stonewall definition, I'm trans. (I don't consider myself to be).

AnnMSinnott · 02/10/2018 11:06

Back here sooner than I thought!

Thanks again for all kind words and comments - warms my heart.

Yes, this was a landmark victory. but let's not lay back and enjoy.

If Sex Self-ID goes through, the protective lid will be blown off completely! The very definition of 'woman' will change and all other language - chest-feeding, cervix-havers, breeders, menstruating people - there will be NO single-sex spaces, services, facilities. And that includes domestic violence refuges, as well as all the other important stuff: toilets, sports, community facilities, awards and prizes, etc etc Everything will be mixed-sex and that will greatly disadvantage women and put them at risk.

Take part in the consultation and encourage others to do the same

fairplayforwomen.com/how-to/ fairplayforwomen.com/cake/

womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-guidance-on-gra-consultation/

If you can, also join in the FPFW campaign - we're out on the streets talking to and informing the general public who are by and large shocked and alarmed. If there isn't an FPFW hub near you, or you don't want to work publicly, get hold of materials from the website and distribute wherever you can think of: in toilets, public or in cafes, shops, galleries, community centres etc, cafe tables, bookstands in bookshops, etc.

We have just two more weeks to stop this! Please help!

FatherBuzzCagney · 02/10/2018 11:16

Unfortunate update from Cambridge. Apparently, the Cambridge Exec Councillor for Communities is a 'committed trans ally'. If only she were as committed to women's rights and safety. But I guess she doesn't think there are as many votes in that.

Clarification on the update to Cambridge’s Single Equalities Policy
1st October, 2018

Dear friends,

I am writing to you in response to your article about Cambridge City Council’s amendments to its inclusion policy. I wanted to clarify a few points.

Cambridge City Council is, and remains, a council strongly committed to inclusion. Our Single Equalities Policy update, which is available on our website, outlines the many things we do to promote equality, including trans equality. For instance, we are currently piloting the Encompass Network’s LGBTQ+ Safe Spaces Campaign and are proud to do so.

Over the summer, queries were raised about the legality of some aspects of the council’s equality policy. Officers immediately began investigating, and this included taking the advice of independent legal experts. The advice we received was that, in order to comply with the 2010 legislation, we needed to make some clarifications. That is what officers are recommending in their draft proposals, which are being brought to committee for discussion. The advice we have received is that the changes are necessary in order to ensure our policy is legally compliant.

Our legal advice makes it clear that we cannot fetter our discretion by not mentioning the single sex exemption. However, it was equally clear that the exemption is to be applied on an exceptional, case-by-case basis only. Our single-sex provision, including a huge number of events for women, as well as single-sex changing rooms and toilets, has always, rightly, been inclusive to trans people, on a self identification basis. It will remain inclusive. It is distressing and disappointing that the opposition councillors in Cambridge are seeking to politicise this important issue which I believe should be beyond party politics.

On a personal level, I am, and remain, a committed trans ally. I am hugely aware of the desperate need for us to update both the gender recognition act and the equality act. As a supporter of self-ID, I have completed my submission to the GRA consultation, arguing that the current unworkable and unjust processes should be amended.

I hope that I can reassure you of Cambridge Council’s continued commitment to inclusion, as well as my own personal commitment. I am very happy for you to contact me further if you would like any clarification.

With best wishes,
Anna Smith
Executive Councillor for Communities,
Cambridge City Council

haXXor · 02/10/2018 11:19

Is this their recruitment and scaremongering tool? “If you have short hair and jeans on or if you arent pretty - you’re going to get targetted for being s man”

TRAs rely upon inducing internalised misogyny in women to convert them into allies, just as MRAs do. The set of TRA tactics and the set of MRA tactics are the same set.

We see your misogyny, Zoe and Sarah.

YouCantTourniquetTheTaint · 02/10/2018 11:19

Thank you Ann Flowers

arranfan · 02/10/2018 11:19

On a personal level, I am, and remain, a committed trans ally. I am hugely aware of the desperate need for us to update both the gender recognition act and the equality act. As a supporter of self-ID, I have completed my submission to the GRA consultation, arguing that the current unworkable and unjust processes should be amended.

^^ I don't understand how this is permissible under Nolan.

AnnMSinnott · 02/10/2018 11:27

Yes, Anna Smith is pro-trans, as is Cllr Richard Johnson. Others are not and some are wobbly.

Anna Smith has produced this because of Sarah Brown's stunt outside Lions Yard toilets last Saturday and subsequent positive press coverage - biased, though I'm mentioned I wasn't approached and given right to reply. The Labour-led council is frantically trying to contain trans/LibDem reaction - who, of course, are making hay. Bizarrely, former cllr Sarah Brown seems to be under the delusion that a local unlawful policy should trump national legislation!

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.