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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Butterfly - TV show

123 replies

GenderApostate · 25/09/2018 20:02

Has anyone just seen the trailer?
Mermaids heavily featured with the line ‘I’d rather have a live Daughter than a dead son’ .

For fucking fucks sake .

OP posts:

VickyEadie · 10/10/2018 12:57

I caught this item on BBC Breakfast when I was on the treadmill at the gym this morning - subtitles only. I think I'm right in saying they presented an entirely one-sided view, didn't mention the 80%+ young people who do not proceed with transitioning (often because they realise they're gay) and gave no mention at all to the suggestibility of young children and the impact parents 'agreeing' with them about their 'identity' can have.

Of course, entirely no mention was made of anyone's child getting bottom surgery abroad...

R0wantrees · 10/10/2018 16:06

Andrew Giligan (Times)

VickyEadie · 10/10/2018 16:27

Am I being unreasonable in feeling queasy about the promo shot for this TV series - featuring Anna Friel and the boy playing her primary-age child - and the boy is wearing make-up.

arranfan · 10/10/2018 16:54

Am I being unreasonable in feeling queasy about the promo shot for this TV series - featuring Anna Friel and the boy playing her primary-age child - and the boy is wearing make-up

Depending on context, I feel queasy about any young child wearing make-up - it makes be think of the US Junior pageants.

FekkoTheLawyer · 10/10/2018 19:23

Maybe that image will ring an alarm bell with parents of boys who had/wanted a dolly, tutu or pram - "shit, those loons would have told us that he was a she and needed medication and surgery abroad! Fuuuuuuck."

PlantsArePeopleToo · 11/10/2018 11:51

I wonder how they're going to show that the child 'knows' they are a girl and how their parents know this is the right thing for them.

Maybe I'm looking too much into it but from the trailer and stills I've seen but it does seem to be playing up to gender roles and stereotypes, e.g the football bit and how they are wearing a pink cardigan and skirts and hair accessories when they're 'living as a girl'.

I hope they don't base it entirely around gender stereotypes but it wouldn't surprise me if they do.

FloralBunting · 11/10/2018 13:33

Of course it's going to be based on stereotypes. That's all they've got. Just seen a longer trailer than I've seen before, and it's all hair slides and dancing happily, but looking sad and out of place at football.
Plus there's a bathroom door breaking incident which will no doubt be some kind of self harm incident, overlaid with the live daughter Vs dead son lie. It's going to be an appalling piece of manipulative lying propaganda, and it makes me so, so angry that this abusive behaviour is being presented as good for child welfare.

FekkoTheLawyer · 11/10/2018 13:52

DS didn't like football when he was little. Funnily enough neither did my dad or brothers.

Yesterday DS (hulking teenager) told me that he was in the school football team (he joined up himself).

What????? Kids change their minds? Who would have thought it?

PlantsArePeopleToo · 11/10/2018 14:14

On the upside at least if it is all based around stereotypes then it might make some more people think wtf and take notice.

VickyEadie · 11/10/2018 16:07

I loved football obsessively as a kid. Playing - jumpers for goalposts stuff, as in my youth girls & women were not allowed by the FA to play organised footie); watching - live at the club I continue to support, any footie on telly, etc etc.

I hit 14 and almost immediately turned my obsession to a pop group which contained some extremely pretty young men.

Kids, eh?

I still like footie, though.

FloralBunting · 11/10/2018 16:23

My son can't abide sport of any description, enjoys collecting dainty models and dolls and likes floral patterns on his clothes, and fiddling about with glitter highlighter make up.

His lack of sport love disappoints his sports mad father, but said father would never be stupid enough to read more into that than his son isn't a clone of him.

None of these things should lead any right thinking person to assume anything about whether he was a he or a she, which is entirely unrelated to glitter, football, flowers or hairstyles.

Datun · 11/10/2018 17:02

Admitting that she just wanted to find a way to support her child, Susie encouraged her son that it was perfectly fine to like girly things but still be a boy.

According to her TEDTalk she was so distressed by his toy choice she immediately took him to the doctors. (I believe she even went so far as to say something like naturally I took into the doctors. As though no one on the planet could possibly disagree.)

Him liking toys for the opposite sex was unthinkable. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was 'wrong'.

So convinced is Green, of her stance, that she relays the story of him whispering on the phone to his grandmother and asking her to buy him a doll for Christmas but please don't tell mummy and daddy.

She is entirely unaware of the glaring message that she is sending her child, and everyone who listens to her. It's shocking to watch.

I don't envy her. If she has even the smallest inkling of this having been avoidable, it must be devastating.

But she should not, ever, be advising other parents. Her own ingrained sexism should preclude her, if not the complete lack of any kind of qualification.

The fact that she is making propaganda films is scandalous.

(I don't envy Anna Friel's position, either. She might well end up reaching a different understanding).

R0wantrees · 11/10/2018 17:19

Also to add that using her child's emotional distress and detailing both the methods used and drawing a causal link to the suicide attempts in the way done on the TedTalk and in pretty much every interview I've read or watched is absolutely contrary to well-established guidelines such as those clearly detailed by the Samaritans.

FekkoTheLawyer · 11/10/2018 17:22

God, my sister told anyone who would listen that she wanted an action man. No one fussed. She got her action man (and the helicopter!)

No one died. What is the problem with a child wanting one thing over another? What is going on in the heads of the parents that they decide that their child is extraordinary and 'special' and in need of (radical) treatment?

FloralBunting · 11/10/2018 17:33

Susie Green appears to be attempting arse-covering retcon in the most recent interviews. The TED talk is clear that she is an appalling sexist, but she seems to have realized that parents like me with trans-identifying kids have said how tremendously sexist and stupid it would be to base such a radical attempted change on what toys a child liked, and she's started saying that she didn't mind a bit what toys her child liked etc. and it was all about something else like inner girly essence or something. Religious superstitious cultists gonna religiously cult, I guess.

I mean the ego must be pretty enormous by now, really. Anna Friel basically playing you in a sympathetic drama all about your life and very, very wonderful you are. Photo shoots and comments on articles and so many people looking to you as the go to guru. It must be quite dizzying to be so feted. Perhaps it colours someone's perceptions of the past, and the justification someone makes for their actions.
Or perhaps someone knows exactly what they have done and makes calculated decisions on revising the narrative, flush with a sense of untouchability from so much adulation.

I couldn't rightly say. But I do have thoughts.

FekkoTheLawyer · 11/10/2018 17:36

Has anyone corrected the incorrect geograpo location of her child's surgery stated in the article?

happydappy2 · 11/10/2018 19:39

I wrote quite a long email to ITV outlining my concerns that this would be a very one sided, pro trans programme, not remotely counterbalanced by the brutal reality of the surgery involved & potential side affects. Also that mermaids is better described as a pressure group than a charity. Had they taken advice from a more neutral organisation such as transgender trend? Plus Susie is misquoting suicide stats & is in breach of Samaritans guidance re suicide in the media. ITV have replied....they are leasing with the team involved & will get back to me. Has anyone else had any replies from ITV?

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap · 11/10/2018 19:43

Well done, happydappy2! I won't be able to watch this programme. I think it would tip me over the edge.

HelenaDove · 11/10/2018 22:10

Off the back of this there is a two page spread in Closer magazine
which includes an interview with the mum whose transgender child is on puberty blockers. ( i didnt buy it so cant screen shot) i read it while in Sainsburys.

RiverTam · 11/10/2018 22:23

Radio Times balanced on this, had Lily Maynard and a parent of a transitioned child. LM said she thought transitioning was child abuse, which I’m pleased they published.

HelenaDove · 11/10/2018 22:34

The woman featured in the Closer interview said she has had accusations of child abuse.

HelenaDove · 11/10/2018 22:35

i have the Radio Times but havent looked at it yet

HelenaDove · 11/10/2018 22:36

Also on the same page they have a small box of info about Lauren Harries.

LangCleg · 11/10/2018 22:42

God, my sister told anyone who would listen that she wanted an action man. No one fussed. She got her action man (and the helicopter!)

I had the tank and my brother had the jeep!

Datun · 11/10/2018 22:51

The action man was so much better equipped than barbie, or indeed action woman (who was crap).

All that stuff they could hold with their hands, the fact their feet and hands moved.

Much more fun

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