Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

Quite amazing the number of blokes with a strong interest in supporting the ignoring of safeguarding rules of an organisation for little girls.

Isn't it just?

Yes they are all over the breaking down of safeguarding and denying young girls their right to privacy and dignity. What sort of men would cheer at that?

It's probably already been said but I expect there will be a quiet (or not so quiet) rebranding in a year or so, removing the 'girl' from the name (and all literature). It will be just called Guides.

GG tweeted the statement also, as well as sending it to all parents (several of whom, in a panic have just joined the Sisters to All Guides facebook group, another woman in my circle, just terfed three Brownie mums picking their kids up about an hour ago!)

Here's the thread, it's not going too well for GG twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1044636494152036353

Don't forget the #SistersToAllGuides hashtag if you're a tweeter, Dr Nic has already replied to them on twitter, it's a thing of beauty

These tweets! So much these tweets.

Sadly the CEO of UKScouts praised their strong statement.

Someone should ask him about David Challenor.

Several people have!

Don't suppose they got a reply.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I just had a quick look at the GG whistleblowing policy. Very interesting. Two of the subjects for whistleblowing are:

A danger to the health and safety of any individual

A deliberate attempt to conceal any of the above

So as well as every thing else they break their own policy.

I'm assuming this has all been reported to the charity commission?

Now on the BBC website...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45642054

Classic headline from the BBC there. Translation: 'We're forced into this, darling borg, but we promise to minimise it as best we can. Normal service resumes shortly. Mwah and cuddles'

I don't know what to say anymore about BBC bias

They are ignoring the law! What can one do with an organisation that doesn’t care about that?!

Report to EHRC. They investigate and can for GG to conform with the law.

That BBC article is as bad as the guides statement.

No mention of the policy allowing males including male leaders into Guides tents without telling parents.

As I am sure everyone using it knows the statement ‘trans girls are real girls’ will be read by at least some people coming to this cold as ‘trans girl is a natal woman and because she feels trans people are being mean’. Male-bodied needs be used to make things clear.

I don't think the BBC article highlights the concerns that are most important to the people who object to the policy.

Yes! to the person (quite early on - sorry for not naming you I read the thread last night) who points out why blanket rulings are required for safeguarding and why 'case by case basis' is NOT good safeguarding.

I do not trust GirlguidingUK volunteers to be able to implement an adequate case by case basis risk assessment.

Whilst I have huge respect for the thousands of women who give up their time to run these groups for our daughters, they are volunteers who are often holding down other full time jobs as well as dealing with their own family life. It's not the same as being a teacher where they work day in day out with young people and have some understanding of child development and child psychology and child behavioural norms.

I was an Assistant leader to a Rainbows pack and was always surprised by what the child-free Rainbow leader thought 5 year olds were capable of. She didn't seem to understand the vast differences in ability between the girls who had just turned 5 and those who were almost 7 and about to move on to Brownies. In every other way she was an amazing leader. When my dd was a guide, she went on a weekend trip to an activity centre and she got a deep cut on her face. The leaders allowed DD, age 10, to decide if she wanted to go to A&E, and she said no. They didn't ring me, they didn't use their better judgement. We had to take her to A&E the next day and the cut had to be re-opened and glued.

They certainly are robust with their communication and forms issued to parents prior to trips and activities but otherwise they are just regular women who have varying strengths and weaknesses, trying their best to give our DDs a fabulous space to be themselves. But they don't have any special credentials (neither do I!) to determine on a case by case basis which penis-owning males - child or adult - might be a threat to the females in their care. Obviously Scouts have to deal with safeguarding issues within their mixed-sex organisation, but Guiding is going to be worse because the leaders are being led to believe that boys who identify as girls are just like any other girl and never a threat to non-trans girls.

Hi BBC!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45642054

You recently had some incredibly serious issues with safeguarding. This should tell you the lengths men will go to to access children.

So this is really not good for you to be minimising the shit out of women’s evidenced concerns about secretive mixed sex accommodation of girls on Guide residentials bunking in with boys and men.

Why are women not allowed to protest the loss of single sex spaces and services, which are important to many girls and women to allow them to take part in these activities at all. (and There is the Scouts which is mixed sex already!)

Why BBC, do you not also have a quote from a women’s organisation like Fair Play for Women? Since Mermaids get a quote that misrepresents women’s concerns?

What’s the evidence for transing a male people magically removing the typical male pattern of sexual offending from them? NONE.

So why do girls have to be forced to share accommodation (deliberately concealing this from parental consent as per Guides Policy!) with male bodied people- just because those people feel they are also girls? Even if those same people are actually Male grown ups?

This is the reality of gender self ID.
Trans male bodied people are no LESS risk than ANYONE ELSE WITH A MALE BODY that we already WOULDN'T put our daughters in with. How do GGUK not get this.

And no this is NOT what the equality Act 2010 says. It gives single sex exemptions for exactly this kind of scenario. It’s GG UK who DON’T WANT TO apply them.

Now why would that be?

They say they have spoken to parents of trans kids, but have they spoken to parents of girls. Do they actually understand the psyche of girls going through puberty and dealing with their changing bodies and how all-encompassing that can be for some of them? I have 2 DDs and without any prompting from me, they say they do not want to do swimming classes at school with boys because they don't want to be seen in their swimsuit by all the boys in their class. They do not want to use the unisex toilet that has been created (thankfully only 2 cubicles) They do not want to go on the residential school trip if they have their period, because it is heavy and they will need to change a pad at some point during the day when they might be miles from toilets. She does not want her male teacher to have to know these details about her so that she can be accommodated. When you live with dds and you open your ears, you remember how prevalent these feelings are when going through puberty.

The issue is the sheer numbers of children in this situation. Believing that they in the wrong body?

If there are so many more girl to boy kids - where are they? Who is squeaking loudly on their behalf?

I think Gentlygently makes a very good point.

The vast majority of parents/people coming to this whole mindfuck completely cold are highly likely to read ‘transgirl’ and think it = girl. Because ‘GIRL Guides’. It just won’t dawn on them that these ‘girls’ are adolescent boys with fully-intact penises. Because, frankly, why would it? Susie Green et al are being given lavish airtime in which to repeat the mantra, ad nauseam, that all transgirls are girls. It would be easy to get the impression that they actually are girls because the alternative is frankly barking and who would believe that?

I feel, like Gentlygently, that this needs to be hammered home until the newcomers grasp this absolutely fundamental point.

Datun I felt this needed reposting lest it got lost among all the other posts.

Who the fuck is pulling all the strings?
Julie Bentley, GG CEO, is best mates with Simon Blake, who's on the Stonewall trans-advisory committee, with Aimee Challoner, whose nappy fetish is plastered all over Twitter. And isnt Blake in a highly paid position in the NUS (head?) where Jess Bradley was getting her cock out in public encouraging minors to do the same and having cartoons of Ben 10 being anally raped on their website.

Why isn't the press reporting on this shit show of entitled men and their perv mates being around the advising of the girl guides policy that allows boys in the tents with girls and parents not to know.

Why indeed. I like to hope that behind the scenes there is an investigative journalist putting all the pieces together to one day be exposed on Panorama - but I realise that is more likely a fantasy.