Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

Sorry that got mangled

It's not just about RISK, it's about privacy and dignity which the EA also allows for.

I really think we have to shout this louder because it's not getting through to people. I love my brother and feel safe with him. I don't want to get undressed in front of him, or any other male.

Absolutely. I'd feel humiliated if I felt I had to shower with a penis-bodied kid as a young teen. Probably now too, tbh.

Girlguiding is not a transgender campaign group, we are a young people’s organisation.

Young people’s.

Not young women’s.

Girlguiding is now Peopleguiding.

Girlscout Reading your post just made me think of something. There's a shop near to where I live. All male employees. Very friendly. I have no reason to think any of them would ever do me any harm. However, I do know that they give all the women that regularly pass by and shop there a score out of 10. It's this kind of assessment and attention that single sex spaces can stop. As you say, it's about privacy and dignity as well.

I got the email as a parent (think I may also be on their database as a previous volunteer as well).

Like I say - my concern is about the whole culture of adults feeling able to raise concerns about safeguarding and how they deal with ANY potential safeguarding concerns being raised. The fact they've gone on this mission to neutralise any voices of dissent raising concerns about the trans issue and the basic potential biological consequences of having penises and vaginas in close proximity with a side order of teenage hormones together - rather than actually listening to what concerns are being raised... coupled with this corporate intention to withold information from parents that would enable them to make informed decisions about things such as residentials for their children... THAT is my issue with this.

The other absolutely glaring thing I notice about that email is lots and lots and lots of mentions of how kind and caring and considerate they're being to trans kids... I do not notice any mention about the bog-standard-run-of-the-mill-girls that make up the original target membership of the organisation (mind you - having seen the appalling sizing and shaping of the Rainbows uniform I sincerely doubt GGUK have SEEN a small girl in many a year - the prat who designed the uniform sizing bloody well hasn't sorry the ridiculous sizing on that uniform has been a long-term bone of contention ).

I'm lucky that one of mine is coming to a natural break point where as far as they're concerned the timing for the next section up just doesn't fit what we do as a family - so I can dodge having to dramatically "stop" them going and just break at that natural stop point.

I fear that this mass email may not have been a sensible tactic on the part of GG.

It's a MASSIVE own goal. However many parents will be spending this evening googling and MN is one of the first hits they'll see. We have an unbelievable opportunity to explain carefully, without any hyperbole or accusations of plopping just exactly what our concerns are around safeguarding and respecting our girls' dignity and privacy.

Let's not blow this.

Why is Julie Bentley not a signatory?

Something weird happened, I just checked my email, saw one from GG and then it disappeared before I clicked on it. Anyone?

Maybe they recalled it? Seems a bit unlikely though...

I have replied back to the email - has everyone else? I will be even more pissed off it they don't send back a tailored response to my specific questions.

I received the email and marked it as unread...it's now not in my inbox?! WTF?

Btw Helen, first i heard of this was in 5Live yesterday- you were brilliant.

DD went to Rainbows tonight - do I stop her subs cheque and withdraw her immediately? I really want to!!

I DO NOT want them taking my money!

DH WILL NOT BELIEVE this is a big deal he says it's self policing and that if enough girls leave they will have to change their policy...completely missing the point that girls should not have to change their behaviour to accommodate the wants of men.

How do we respond to the email? All excellent points made above, it would be good to summarise the salient ones and reply with them.

I noticed it was young 'persons' organisation. Is girl triggering for someone with a penis? My daughter does not have a penis. She is a girl.

I cannot believe the email has disappeared!

Ok...to email back, I am thinking:

Lack of consultation with parents, and advisory board not appropriate/representative or specialist enough (e.g. rapists and the like - Will leave that bit out)

Unable to define 'girl' with a Girlguiding.

Actually trans-exclusionary is a boy with penis bit feels likes a girl can attend, but girl with vagina who feels like a boy is to be excluded

You cannot safeguard my daughter appropriately so at no point will she be left in the care of Girlguides, who do not take safeguarding seriously

Anything else?

Excuse angry/fat finger typos!

Is this a joke - "it's important that society listens when women speak out" ?!

They tweeted the email on their official Twitter I shouldn’t think it’s recalled. Check your junk/spam folder?

Very odd that two people's emails disappeared at the same time. Has this happened to anyone else?

As the email is so unclear could you (faux innocence) ask what they mean specifically by trans members. I worry a little that some parents might think they mean females that identify as boys....

Otherwise bring in disregarding the pants rule amongst younger members, privacy and dignity for older members, particularly those struggling with female puberty and those from religious backgrounds.

I have received the email, just as a parent, not as any sort of volunteer.

It has not disappeared from my inbox.

The tweet of this text is still up on GGUK’s Twitter: mobile.twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1044636494152036353

It has definitely disappeared as an email, but is still on Twitter. Have been retweeting the good comments!

Fascinating how many men have turned up to loudly applaud appalling safeguarding for girls on that twitter thread, one of whom is apparently a GG ambassador.

Quite amazing the number of blokes with a strong interest in supporting the ignoring of safeguarding rules of an organisation for little girls.

angeltattoo maybe add in the general point about organisations being secret free zones, as opposed to GG where they will not be telling girls or their parents if a boy/man self identifying as a girl/woman is now part of their group.

Also, why as a single sex organisation are they now regularly using the word person/people and not girl in communications.