Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

Bold fail.

Datun Julie Bentley, GG CEO, is best mates with Simon Blake, who's on the Stonewall trans-advisory committee, with Aimee Challoner, whose nappy fetish is plastered all over Twitter. And isnt Blake in a highly paid position in the NUS (head?) where Jess Bradley was getting her cock out in public encouraging minors to do the same and having cartoons of Ben 10 being anally raped on their website.

What? How come this has only just come to light?

Agree Zeugma
Other misconceptions are that
-all trans people have ‘sex change operations’
-that pre transition they were adult gay males so are not heterosexual
-and that in the case of the Guides-
-if you are a GIRL with the temerity to be gender non conforming, confused, or not feminine identifying enough, you’ll be managed OUT of the Girl Guides.

Not looking so inclusive now eh Girl Guides UK?

Most people have no idea what the ‘trans’ umbrella extends to cover these days.

It includes: Bearded intact men who make no change - medical, surgical, cosmetic, clothes, nothing. Any man who feels like claiming trans status can do so. This would include a man motivated do that because he knows it gets him access to girls and women.

Like in female prisons,(recent convictions for sexual assaults in women’s prisons show this), women’s wards in hospitals and now.. the Girl Guides.

Famous for taking girls on camp away for a brilliant time.. away from parental supervision.

Girl Guiding UK’s policy is an open invitation to any male person who wants access to girls and women. There are a lot of those.

Safeguarding is essential for safety, dignity, privacy and trust and especially with anyone who works with children. Safeguarding applies to EVERYONE. It is not transphobic to insist on this.

Men and boys, do not get to bunk in with girls however those males happen to identify. That’s what proper safeguarding looks like.

Hopefully more parents will see the BBC article on this today, go to the GGUK Twitter account to get it from them, then see the Fair Play for Women tweets that point out all the problems with this Girl Guiding policy.
Which was introduced without consultation with parents, the volunteers who run Guides, or any women’s groups.

Weird how ‘diversity’ in the strangely man- pleasing Girl Guiding Trustees and executive team’s world, seems to only mean centring male people?

What about the girls Guides and their parents? What about women who as volunteers actually run Guiding groups day in and day out? They have been asking questions and being fobbed off by GGUK for months.

How does this email look? There is an intro at he top missing, but this is the body of it.

Any mistakes you can see, or anything I can add?

Thanks

Would it be worth asking who advised them do you think?

I can't believe part time cross dressers extreme porn advocates domestic violence apologists and nappy wearing furries and paedo cross dressers are seriously being listened too

In the guardian now too
And it's a fairly balanced piece

amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/26/girlguiding-defends-transgender-policy-after-criticism?__twitter_impression=true

This from the Guardian piece -

"The policy says leaders are not allowed to tell girls or their parents if another girl or leader in their unit used to identify as male.'

So used to 'identify as male' now is it? They've shifted it from currently IDing as female/girl/woman whatever to the TRA stance that they were female/girl/woman all along, just IDing as male but are now their authentic self. Am I the only one reading it this way?

None of it mentions the showering and sleeping. They will all just assume it's like scouts and mixed

Why won't they tell the trutg

Used to identify as male - are they saying males that now say they are women were only pretending to be boys all along? Their willy didn't give it away?

The guardian has finally lost the plot.

Would it be worth asking who advised them do you think?

They’ve already given a convoluted answer, without actually saying who was involved. Talk about groups and saying the creepy individuals did not directly consult with them. 🤥 In other words, they may have been involved in the group advising the GGs, but since they didn’t speak directly to them, they’re not going to admit that. 🙄

angeltattoo

I think that's an excellent email. Maybe add that a single sex space doesn't only safe guard girls against the risk of physical/sexual abuse by males, but provides dignity and privacy. You could mention the current GG campaign to end period poverty and the stigma around periods. How will the GG ensure a girls privacy and dignity when discussing this subject alongside boys who are there because they identify as a girl?

Maybe we should stop using the phrase trans girls, but instead boys who now identify as a girl.

At this age, in what way are they transitioning? Self id, name change, hair cut and more masculine clothes - that's all I've personally observed so far. We also know around 80% of these boys will identify with their natal sex once through puberty. Why should we use the TRA language?

Positively, one needs to add that their first statement said, no individuals whatsoever consulted with them, only groups. That just means, they could have consulted with Aimee challenor&co, but in their function as representative of a group.

Maybe we should stop using the phrase trans girls, but instead boys who now identify as a girl.
I always use this as all other phrases are confusing to the 90% of the population who don't think this is an issue.

Thank you nicenewdusters.

I am about to send this email.

I have also emailed the unit leader to ask when the policy comes into force (mostly to open a dialogue with her).

My daughter will be very upset that she has to leave Rainbows.

In response to your email that you sent out yesterday regarding 'Our response to the media attention to our Equality and Diversity policy', I am writing to express my disappointment and upset about these events.

That two members have been removed from GG as a result of raising Safeguarding concerns is abhorrent.

Your introduction of the policy without consulting parents is disgusting. You have managed to consult male-bodied people who have no GG experience, but not the girls at GG and their parents. This is not a full or complete consultation. This does not constitute an experienced, specialist and balanced consultation.

Allowing biological males, regardless of how they identify, into what has always been a female-only organisation removes the female-only space that many generations of girl-guiding has provided. Doing so without changing your status to mixed-sex and allowing for appropriate safeguards puts girls at risk, and removes parents' autonomy to remove their children from such situations, by mis-informing them.

You have obliterated GG as a safe-space that girls need to access for many reasons.Single (biological) sex space does not only guard against physical/sexual abuse from males. This isn't about a trans-person being any more likely than anyone else to be a threat, I KNOW THEY ARE NOT. It is about people who ARE a threat using the access allowed under this policy to gain access to girls and women, where previously they could not.

Girls need space that is reserved for biological girls for many reasons, including religion, privacy and dignity. GG are currently campaigning to end period poverty, can you not see that a biological male with a penis sharing space with biological girls could be intimidating, embarrassing, stigmatising and distressing for girls?

Laughably, the changes you have made are the opposite of trans-inclusionary, in so much as you will now admit biological boys and men (who identify as female) but EXCLUDE biological girls (who identify as male). You have been unable to define the term girl. You also seem to be using phrases like 'young person' instead of girls, which should surely be unnecessary for a single-sex organisation?

Finally, it was not necessary for you to do this under any law in this country. You were well within your rights to maintain your current policy for the safety and well being of the girls in your care. But men have demanded access to a female-only space, and you have granted it to them. How shameful for an organisation that should be about empowering girls.

With this, you have removed the ability of Girlguiding to safeguard my daughter and I will be withdrawing her membership.

Great email angel.

Just as an aside. I have a young adult autistic daughter who identifies as male. She was in Senior Section before she came to this conclusion. The leader of that unit, and all the members, continue to welcome her warmly to guiding events, and she is really happy to go to them. I assume this is now against official policy.

Guardian piece has 10 paras and title all on the guides' point of view and three tucked at the end on the parents and leaders, with guides having the final word.

It is far from balanced.

Starkstaring It's hard to know. Their policy on transgender and gender reassignment says: "We understand that if a young member is transitioning from female to male that they will be experiencing a great amount of change and uncertainty. Flexibility and the Leaders’ discretion in conversation with the parents must be used to determine how long the child stays within the unit."

Which I think is deliberately vague because of course if they allow girls who identify as males to remain, it conflicts directly with this part of the policy:

"Girlguiding aims to support all girls and young women. This is understood in terms of the way a person self-identifies their gender identity - a person’s inner sense of self."

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

I don't believe that Guide leaders nor Guides themselves would want to see confused gender non-conforming young females have to leave the orgnanisation but they have rather shot themselves in the foot when they say that identifying as a girl or young woman is what is important. I'd ask for clarification about your child, in writing, and watch them tie themselves up in knots trying to answer.

The web page dates from 2017 with a change this year (but not major).

I posted in our closed FB group that all parents should have received an important email. Any questions about it, please do come to us.

I've had one email from one parent saying they think the email from GGUK is good.

So should I be raising what my concerns are as a Guider?

I am a Brownie Guider so it's girls aged 7-10 which is why I wonder if perhaps it's not seen as a bigger deal?

Ignores that 3/4 of her own dc were sexually assaulted at ages 4, 8 and 10 by other children aged 9 and 11...

Oh Ima so sorry to hear that.

I think a lot of people just don't get it.
They think a transgirl means a girl who identifies as a boy. They think (quite rightly) we should be welcoming them.
They may also think that a boy who identifies as a girl is so majorly different from other boys - and in particular that they are DEFINITELY both a young child and attracted to boys only. They don't know that there are any straight boys who identify as girls.
They don't think that anyone could possibly pretend to be trans.

They are thinking of their Uncle Crispin who is now Auntie Cris and lives with his/her lovely partner Freddie.

Do the parents know about your children?
Could you drop a hint e.g. "due to my personal knowledge of abuse by children against children I don't feel I can keep your girls safe in a multi-unit setting so I won't be taking girls on joint residentials any more"??

ImA Could you send out a clearer explanation of the letter? Since the letter from GG, some parents have asked me to clarify a couple of points: a) The policy is now that boys who identify as girls can be accepted into Girl guides. b) Furthermore when we have trips, these children must be allowed to share tents and showering facilities with the other guides. c) Parents will not be informed if a boy who identifies as a girl has joined the unit. If you have any safeguarding concerns regarding this, please let me know.

I would leave it Ima. bide your time and strategise how to deal with particular situations to protect the children in your care.

I posted in our closed FB group that all parents should have received an important email. Any questions about it, please do come to us

Not the same closed guide group that Aimee Challenor is in?