Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

Indeed. I don't think Green would have an issue with her daughter sleeping next to boys because of any pregnancy risk. As anyfulekno, male bodies don't become pregnant even if they do have sex with penises.

Thank God my dds are not in the GG. They both loved being in Brownies and I was always so grateful to the Owls who gave up so much of their time to run it - they went camping and all kinds. Now these sterling women are being written out of history by envious males who want to muscle in on girls' safe spaces. It is nothing more or less than envy, pure and simple.

The next time Green is on TV it would be great if the presenter would go hard in terms of questions. She has quite an ego/temper and would probably melt down in an informative way.

Bet she's in quite a bad mood now.

I didn't see the GMB bit she was on. Did he really grill her or was it quite gentle pushback?

anyfulekno - shout out for the Molesworth reference!

I had a look at the Trustees of GG. There are quite a few who work at the BBC, and quite a few who had formative experiences as Guides growing up. I wonder how they feel about the whole thing. And by including trans girls, aren't they abandoning their royal charter?

Just watched on +1. It wasn't a grilling (as in not in-depth questioning) but it was a very firm pushback and got the issue over pretty well I think.

The other woman on is Caroline Farrow

twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1044443291280973824

(I didn't see it, but I saw the tweets).

Caroline Farrow confirms that , "ECHR have clarified that the Guides are allowed to segregate on the basis of sex and also asked @ Girlguiding to change their website so it clarifies they are a mixed sex organisation." twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1044488208250261504

So that's it then? Girl Guides is officially now mixed sex and must make this clear. Those who have so poorly advised the GG have succeeded after 108 years in officially bringing to an end it being a movement for girls, only girls. However the Equality Act 2010 is still in place (despite attempts to remove sex as a protected characteristic), GG have the option to revisit their policies and to reassert their commitment to being a single-sex organisation. “the ultimate feminist organisation” (Julie Bently Times interview 2012)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-are-the-ultimate-feminists-says-julie-bentley-new-head-of-girl-guides-tnqck6hxjqp

James Kirkup documented attempts to remove sex as a protected characteristic and those individuals and organisations involved: (extract)

"Some facts about the events that preceded the Government statement here that the coming consultation on the Gender Recognition Act will be narrowly drawn and not affect the Equality Act’s single sex exemptions. I offer these facts because some are claiming “there was never any question of removing/amending EA exceptions.” Those claims are either mistaken or dishonest.
August 2015
Stonewall submission to the Women & Equalities Select Committee says MPs should amend the EA to
“remove exemptions, such as access to single-sex spaces” (continues) threadreaderapp.com/thread/1004635839480164352.html?refreshed=yes

Just seen that too R0!

GG have the option to revisit their policies and to reassert their commitment to being a single-sex organisation

It would be usual given the ECHR guidance that there should be a meeting by trustees.
As the Girl Guides have been repeatedly stressing how important is for the girls of the movement to have their say, it should also be put to them.
Do they wish to return to being single sex, or do they wish to remain mixed-sex.
Being openly mixed sex, will of course mean exactly that. There will be no possibility of excluding boys who do not identify as transgirls.

Hooray, my DS can join! He's always wanted to, since I took him on camp.

And they have no business 'managing out' girls who are questioning or confused about aspects of gender and/or their sexuality.

Fuck's sake, what a debacle.

The Politics of New Envy indeed, RythmStix, with all its shitty consequences.

And they have no business 'managing out' girls who are questioning or confused about aspects of gender and/or their sexuality.

No they definitely can't continue to do this.

It is officially mixed-sex.

And they have no business 'managing out' girls who are questioning or confused about aspects of gender and/or their sexuality.

If they choose to reassert that they are a single-sex organisation, the GG will also not be able to do this.

(Sorry, that was ironic. He's perfectly happy in Beavers now - in fact my DD wants to join)

My question is - why would anyone who has an ounce of concern about girls, kick out non-conforming girls?

There are a few guide leaders enthusiastically celebrating this. Why?

As an aside, worth being aware that the Wiki page for Guides was edited to use 'single gender' instead of sex:

eg "Following negative publicity in "The Spectator" magazine Baden-Powell decided that a separate single-gender organisation would be best. Baden-Powell asked his sister, Agnes Baden-Powell, to form a separate Girl Guides organisation. In 1910 The Girl Guides were officially formed in the United Kingdom"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Guides

(Sorry, that was ironic. He's perfectly happy in Beavers now - in fact my DD wants to join)

He could / should be able to though drspouse given current policy and legislation.

Fuck's sake, what a debacle

This

Although a debacle is the best case scenario here. It's only thanks to the crucial work of Helen and others that we dont have a situation where girls are being put at risk and bullying and gaslighting techniques are being used to make sure nobody with any clout notices

cough Anyone can edit wikipedia - if one of you lot haven't done so, I'll fix it as soon as I'm not on a work network. If it becomes contentious, you can ask for the page to be locked to prevent further changes.

OK I've just finished my breakfast and headed over to girl guiding's wikki - well done.

So. GirlGuiding is now mixed sex? Therefore my friend's daughter who's very recently started to identify as a boy shouldn't be managed out, on the grounds that their sex is female and their gender identity is male. So they have a GG bingo full house.

And if they're mixed sex, my son who's currently a scout can join.

And a boy who's identifying as a girl can join, as, according to Susie Green, he's a girl.

So trans girl, trans boy, male, female. I think they may need to remove the "girl" element of their title. Who the hell is going to share a tent?