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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

770 replies

AgnesBadenPowell · 23/09/2018 01:04

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

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deepwatersolo · 24/09/2018 17:51

I'm beginning to wonder if the Harry Potter generation actually thinks magic is real.

It is mind over matter for them, apparently. They will be in for a rude awakening in the years to come. On several fronts. (Off topic, I know, but they also think scientists will have a magic solution at hand when TSHTF with gobal warming. To be fair, current politicians live by the same rules.)

Coyoacan · 24/09/2018 17:52

I saw TELI complaining about not being invited onto the world at one, SunsetBeetch so I presume they felt that would have put their point across better than Susan Green.

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 17:55

Shouldn't TELI take this up with Susie Green then. Its not the BBC's fault. Prior to the Channel 4 Genderquake debate Stephen Whittle seemed keen to brief all the panelists: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3249035-Stephen-Whittle-s-blog-on-Genderquake-with-a-detailed-briefing-for-panelists

LadyLauraOver · 24/09/2018 17:57

I don't understand why GG could not tell the parents there would be a male bodied child sleeping next to their daughter and did they mind terribly? They didn't have to name the child in the troop so the privacy could be maintained. After all none of us can tell these people aren't really female just by looking at them. Can we?

AsAProfessionalFekko · 24/09/2018 18:00

Look. It won't be a secret who the boy would be. It's obvious - always obvious and gets even more obvious as they age. However we have to pretend we don't notice incase they run off and harm themselves? I can't be bothered to play games here.

LadyBrian · 24/09/2018 18:01

It's horrific that an organisation set up to work with children is taking safeguarding advice from organisations who are not safeguarding experts.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 24/09/2018 18:03

If cultural appropriation is a Bad Thing, how come sex appropriation is not a Bad Thing?🤔

deepwatersolo · 24/09/2018 18:22

Lisa Muggeridge basically says GG has been turned by a network of predatory males, naming names, saying that Agnes was fired was a typical move in such a scenario, removing anyone with the ability to see through the bullshit (I am paraphrasing here). Worth listening to.

Melamin · 24/09/2018 18:38

It's horrific that an organisation set up to work with children is taking safeguarding advice from organisations who are not safeguarding experts. Especially one that prided itself on taking the safety of its girls so seriously when the Scouts were going through the mill. You would think they would be more careful who they took advice from. It is eye-opening to look at the individuals that are so keen on 'updating' safeguarding advice.

gendercritter · 24/09/2018 19:23

It wasn't even the Student Union this time! It was the Feminism society. Dear god, that's depressing.

Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy
Bowlofbabelfish · 24/09/2018 19:25

UoL twitter owner clearly isn’t doing a biology degree...

TurfClub · 24/09/2018 19:36

'Feminist' society twitter.com/TerfClub/status/1044284110263345152

womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/09/2018 19:37

Repeat watch this about grooming at play in GG:

deepwatersolo Mon 24-Sep-18 18:22:15
Lisa Muggeridge basically says GG has been turned by a network of predatory males, naming names, saying that Agnes was fired was a typical move in such a scenario, removing anyone with the ability to see through the bullshit (I am paraphrasing here). Worth listening to. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeIcbzg3VAo

boatyardblues · 24/09/2018 19:48

Lisa’s video is really hard hitting. If I had daughters in the Guiding movement, I’d be pulling them out immediately.

RiverTam · 24/09/2018 19:48

That press release is utter bullshit. So cross right now.

boatyardblues · 24/09/2018 19:55

In years to come, I suspect the Guiding movement will be a case study on social work and PR masters programmes about how get both safeguarding and crisis PR management catastrophically wrong. Their reaction every step of the way has been tone deaf, to the leaders and parents raising early concerns directly with them to the shitshow that is unfolding as we speak.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 24/09/2018 19:57

Woman and girlhood does boil down to genitals. Yes. And chromosomes, reproductive organs, pelvis size, the whole damn physical body. That is the only thing all women and girls have in common. Really sorry this is desperately painful for some to accept but mental health is based on your capacity to deal with reality. You can identify and live socially to your heart's content in any choice of gender roles and expressions you choose, great, crack on. That does not change your biological sex and there are lines where that personal choice and sense of self cannot cross because of its impact on others. Sorry, no.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 24/09/2018 19:59

And if you're sad for me because you see that as deeply misogynist and Other Words Too, then thank you for sharing, but my sense of right, wrong and reality isn't actually predicated on how you feel about me.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 24/09/2018 19:59

Lisa’s video is really hard hitting. If I had daughters in the Guiding movement, I’d be pulling them out immediately.

Exactly - they are at risk if they stay there - despite what the HO may think - get the girls out!!

TimeLady · 24/09/2018 20:01

Gosh, that's an extraordinarily powerful video from Lisa. Flowers to her. If I was a trustee of the guides, I wouldn't be happy right now.

hiveofmumsandvillainy · 24/09/2018 20:09

Has Lisa's video been posted on GG twitter?

Beamur · 24/09/2018 20:15

Message to UoL. You don't own feminism and don't get to say who is, or isn't a feminist.

TimeLady · 24/09/2018 20:16

Yes it has

TurfClub · 24/09/2018 20:17

Beamur: The feminist society is actually the trans society.

Beamur · 24/09/2018 20:29

Turf club: The irony...