Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

It's parading round with the good guy's head on a pole, to show that there is fuck all anyone can do about it.

Absolutely. If GG had any sort of safeguarding issue, no matter how banal, leaders will be looking at that head and thinking twice.

It creates a climate of fear. Even people who want to think out of line will be checking the consequences.

Things will be pushed under the carpet, dealt with at local level, not taken further, perpetrators moved on to quieter waters etc.

Yes, we need a new girls single sex organisation.

Charliethefeminist, that is not all you should say about that. Jess Bradley is a founder of UK Teli, and Jess Bradley likes to get her penis out in public and take pictures of it, among other things.

Jess Bradley was a founder of UK Teli. And that's all I have to say about that along with Tara Hewitt. These are the people who have been the pubic face - the rest seem to stay in the background and we know little about them or their motives. Who pays the bills?

Re: the tweet from TELI
"We were invited on @VictoriaLIVE tomorrow to discuss trans inclusion in @Girlguiding the original transphobic guests have now withdrawn worried about too much challenge. Ironic that anti trans campaigners constantly ask for debate yet don't like credible speakers. #VictoriaLive "

In the past, programming has been cancelled because the trans activist representative will not share a platform with someone they do not agree with. But it goes ahead if 'transphobic guests' withdraw?

I’m going to make a wild guess and say that I don’t think the Teli Twitter account is operated by any actual legal professionals.

Assume it’s that Hewitt person. Makes the whole thing look very unprofessional (as does a single yearly conference two years ago. They should be on their third by now).

Tara Hewitt has played a key role in developing NHS policies and guidance in the North West.
Tara Hewitt was at UHSM (university Hospital South Manchester)

• I think UHSM (presumably under TH influence were a founding supporter of TELI)

Tara Hewitt has being playing a key role in developing trans-inclusive policies at Salford University recently and is soon taking up a diversity role at another NW NHS Trust.

Tara Hewitt also provided 'expert' advice about the resources for young people who were in the care system and for foster carers and social care professionals:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

Tara Hewitt has also been tweeting very critical comments about Dr Polly Carmichael and the NHS Tavistock clinic's approach.

Given it is about 80% of the population not buying into gender feels, that is potentially 80% of parents that could pull their girls out of Guides

It's not that simple.

DD1 in guide and DD2 in brownies get so much out of their weekly meetings - their packs are already struggling with numbers they don't do overnight trips. Guides got DD1 past a bad friendship stretch at secondary – she’d not want to leave.

Though I'm very pleased I was alerted as I'd just been told guides could apply to wider Guide events even if their local group wasn't taking part - which we didn't persue once leaders on here made us aware of possible safeguarding problems.

I can see us being less keen on Senior section than we once were –might see what else is in the area.

DD2 is keen to joining guides as he sister did it though I don’t know if group will manage till then. There are bigger groups in the city that do overnights which would be difficult to get her to –though we could possibly do it - so if local guide group closes that might be it for her as well.

I know people who run other local groups in the area - because they work in the local schools - and I could see other parents even when they know of issues trusting local group leaders enough to still do overnight events.

i was concsdiering few years time when youngest is old enough to leave in evening volunteering with guides - this whole things puts me off.

I feel really sorry for the two expelled leaders and the other facing investigation for raising concerns - they've been treated appallingly and it’s a pretty clear indication if there ever were problems in the future any girls and their parents wouldn’t find support with guide organisation.

bigkite Please alert your leaders, and the higher-ups, to your concerns (your leaders will be able to tell you who to talk to).
We know GG HQ aren't listening but I do feel confident I can still keep my girls safe even if it means other leaders thinking I'm a hateful bigot/teaming up with another hateful bigot leader.

HuffPost article, January 2017

'Girlguiding To Welcome Transgender Children And Leaders Under Official New Guidelines
Transgender kids will be welcomed at Rainbows, Brownies and Girl Guides.'
(extract)
"New guidelines from Girlguiding state that transgender children and leaders are welcome in the organisation in a move to support anyone who identifies as a girl or woman.

The 107-year-old organisation now officially opens its doors to those who were assigned male at birth but self-identify as female.

The guidelines state that children from the age of five can join Rainbows, Brownies and Girl Guides if they identify as female.

In addition, transgender women are able to undertake leadership roles within the clubs, including the esteemed role of Brown Owl." (continues)

"Aimee Challenor, equalities (LGBTIQ) spokesperson for the Green Party, has welcomed the new guidelines.

“I’m really pleased to see the Girlguiding movement continue its values of acceptance by allowing trans girls to be a part of their movement and experience the many wonderful experiences in guiding,” she told The Huffington Post UK.

“Allowing trans girls into their movement will help give them a sense of belonging and will hopefully be another step to normalising trans young people.”

A spokesperson from the LGBT rights charity Stonewall added: “This is a very welcome step as it ensures that all girls and young women are included, and demonstrates a real commitment to creating a world where all lesbian, gay, bi and trans people are accepted without exception.” (continues)

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/girlguiding-to-welcome-transgender-children-and-leaders_uk_5885ea1be4b020854098d033

I've brought it up with the Brownie leader - lots of nodding but nothing else.

Not brought it up with Guide leaders. I see them less and frankly they've both had bereavements and illnesses this year so pushing them on this issue hasn't yet felt appropriate.

It has prompted DH to fill out Government Survey ( I was made aware of it on AIBU) and I do talk to people and raise concerns more geneally - but yes I do need to do more here.

I wanted to see whether this had been reported anywhere else, and I found a discussion on Reddit. Someone posted this link to a 2012 story from the US:

www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article32046741.html

It begins:

"A convicted sex offender who used his position as a Girl Scout leader to sexually assault young girls now is living in Benton County.

"John D. Babcock, 60, was released Tuesday as an untreated transient sex offender, said Benton County sheriff's officials. He does not have a permanent address, but is required to check in weekly at the sheriff's office.

"Babcock is a Level 3 sex offender, meaning he is considered by law enforcement officials as highly likely to reoffend. He also identifies himself as transgender and uses the name Sarah Babcock."

Still, this never happens so I guess the newspaper just made it up because they're a bunch of bigoted transphobes.

ooo, just heard the trailer for WATO! good luck!

Me too! Good work Agnes!

what is WATO?

hackmum

But but but, that never happens! No man would ever use the trans umbrella to abuse women or children. 🤔

Oh I know, what it is! They’re not really trans. Sure have you not realised by now, that a person isn’t really trans if they commit a crime? Up to the point of a woman or child being abused, that person is a REAL woman (TWAW don’t ya know?), but as soon as a crime is committed they’re a fraud. 🤔🙄

what is WATO?

I'd guess it's World At One

Agnes - mention the self-ID leaders on WATO if you can. You didn’t mention them on R5 Live, but a lot of parents need to hear it.

thank you.

I've done the recording (in the radio car outside my office!)

I did mention leaders but I have no control over how the piece is edited and broadcast.

I did mention leaders on LBC though (I think, it's all a bit of a blur now).

There is more media coming....

Oh just turned on World at One and they announced they would be talking to a guider - thought it would be you!

Thank you Agnes for all that you are doing on this.

Have WATO on right now. Looking forward to it. Would say "Good luck!" but you've already done it. :-)

Interested to know what other media are taking an interest. Just a wild guess, but I'm assuming it's not the Guardian.

Another thank you here.

There is more media coming....

Good. And of course now you can say what you like, rather than being bound by restrictions as a GG leader.