Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

On the plus side of all this, GGUK have brought it out into the open by their (highly visible) actions - it is more publicity than a few feminists and concerned parents could ever generate - and makes GG look like they have egg on their face. Safeguarding girls is the one non-negotiable in all this, and they thumbed their nose at it. Parents of girls are now going to be outraged.

Given it is about 80% of the population not buying into gender feels, that is potentially 80% of parents that could pull their girls out of Guides.

This woke move by GGUK could actually be the end of them.
Good. Because a new no-compromise org needs to take their place.

Mamaryllis I loved your tangent, most interesting, thank you!

Just to add to your tangent, the grandson of BC was convicted of murdering his wife, Allison, a few years ago in Australia. The misogynist legacy of BC lives on.

@Mamaryllis yes, my username is a tribute to poor Agnes, who still doesn't get the recognition she deserved. She embodies everything that Girlguiding stood for, for me at least. Probably a bit presumptuous to call myself after her but she is a role model to me.

for the real Agnes, who was an inspiration to so many Guides.

Agnes what can we do to support you? What is the best way?

Agnes excuse my language but you are a fucking hero. I've followed since you started your concerns, done stuff 'offline' to support you.

I had no idea about the original Agnes, and it lends even more fire to the flame.

I was a Brownie, then a Guide (until I was 'advised' to leave for inappropriate behaviour - 30-odd years ago, stepping outside the 'stereotype' of appropriate girl-behaviour was not particularly big but they didn't like it. Now that I look at it, it was taking risks, physical, not sexual. Nowadays I'd have probably been 'transed' out!).

You are amazing. A truly accidental hero.

So next steps.

There's an article in the mail online (I did NOT agree to this and the fuckers lifted my Facebook photos without asking/telling me).

Telegraph doing a write up tomorrow.

I'll be on radio 5 live at 7:35am tomorrow morning.

Dr Nic of fair play for women will be on Julia Hartley Brewer's breakfast Talk Radio show too but not sure what time.

I'm speaking at the WPUK meeting in Liverpool on Tuesday.

And whatever other opportunities come up! Do share with your journalist friends.

I'll put in my appeal next week.

And then...TBC

Agnes get on JHB, she's 100% with you on this

Sad to see Guide leaders having to leave like this - I know there's a waiting list to join the Scouts due to the difficulty in getting suitable leaders so sacking motivated and experienced leaders for essentially safeguarding concerns is borderline criminal.

That all sounds great Agnes. We are all behind you.

You're doing an amazing job Agnes, thank you so much for standing up through all this and making your voice heard.

Huge waiting lists around here too - especially for Rainbows which Agnes leads.

According to Stephen Whittle on an previous MN thread this isn't and issue Clare. All GG leaders can just hand out condoms.

Sure. Because no girl was ever allergic to latex, or prone to post-coital cystitis. Cystitis is going to be really fun to manage in a field where all the water has to be fetched from a tap half-a-mile away and the toilets are elsan. Girls should not be having sex on guide camp, end of.

He also mentioned emergency contraception if it was er... after the event, as it were.

Point of law: guiders are not allowed to prescribe medicine, including EC. Handing a girl EC is considered prescribing it. It's the same reason that a workplace first aider can't give you painkillers. So the girl would have to get the guider to take her to a pharmacist to buy EC, taking the guider off-site and disrupting the activities of the whole pack. Female socialisation being what it is, I can easily imagine a girl staying quiet and hoping that she doesn't get pregnant because she doesn't want to spoil the day for everyone else.

Stephen Whittle opened a lot of eyes around here.

Yeah. I suspect "internalised misogyny" is a major motive for his transition, the way he dismisses the risks to girls' bodies.

Another one Agnes for whom you are a total hero.
It’s really great that you have all this media lined up.
The more we hear about these individuals the more this situation stinks- why on earth is an organisation for girls and young women like GGUK taking advice off ‘t-girl’ and daytime party-dress-wearer to work and woman’s-award-appropriator Bunce, aspiring young Green Party office-holder and ‘furry’ person Aimee Challenor who had a rapist and torturer for their election agent, and extreme porn advocate Fae etc?

I mean what is ANY of their relevant experiences of managing any kind of successful children and young people’s services, or of running a major charity, or you know even of ever BEING FEMALE and YOUNG in their actual real (not fantasy) lives?

What one relevant thing to GGUK are any of these people credible experts in?

It’s shocking and very scary who the GGUK executive team and trustees are happy for their charity’s policies to be advised by.

And when challenged GGUK are doubling down on it and expelling people who ask basic and very appropriate questions about safeguarding. This is scandalous.

Just because there's a lot of threads on stuff right now, I'm posting something that's replicated elsewhere, but relevant:

Re. the image of HoC advisory panel:

Here we see an image, in the House of Commons, of GirlGuiding being 'advised' by, and 'standing shoulder to shoulder' with a panel of mostly male-bodied people who have chosen to adopt the stereotypical trappings of 'womanhood', (whether it's because they say they have dysphoria or, like our dear Pips, just want to express themselves).

ADVISING GirlGuiding, a charity that had represented the interests of girls (defined in that old-fashioned, retro interpretation of 'girls') for over 100 years.

I'm not sure if Aimee was there, but it sure looks like Aimee sitting on the front row.

Aimee, 20 yrs old, who has had a sadly challenged and disruptive childhood, who is linked to 'furry' fetishism and is in a relationship, amongst others, with a 39-year old 'furry/baby fetish' male.

Aimee, who misguidedly employed their father as election agent, following their father's arrest for torturing and sexually abusing a 10 year old girl, whilst dressed as a 'girl' and wearing a nappy.

Aimee who later congratulated GirlGuiding for embracing the trans ideology:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/girlguiding-to-welcome-transgender-children-and-leaders_uk_5885ea1be4b020854098d033

It's fascinating, though not surprising, that the loudest political trans voices are male-bodied people with 'diverse' sexual histories.

And the ones who want to infulence policy in this area.

I have no issue with people's personal sexual preferences. But I find it interesting that there is such a link between trans and public acknowledgement of these preferences.

I do not know whether Jo Swinson likes to swing naked from the chandeliers.

Whether Theresa May enjoys a little light bondage.

Whether Dawn Butler is in a polyamorous relationship.

But I know much more about the following people's sex lives, who turn up time and again advising third sector, and governmental organisations on trans issues.

Tara Hewitt's BDSM preferences and keenness to educate people that the trans umbrella includes men who get a sexual kick out of dressing in women's clothes and that's a normal part of the 'trans umbrella' (but probs only for men, ha ha, Tara, thanks for that 'joke'!).
Jess Bradley's preference for getting their dick out in public places.
Jane Fae's campaigning for reducing barriers to extreme porn access and age barriers.
Sarah Brown's polyamorous status and general 'suck my pickled balls' proclamations.
Aimee Challenor's furry and nappy preferences, posted online.
Zoe O'Connell's polyamorous relationship status.
David Challenor's Green Party support for his trans child.
Zinnia Jones' firm desire to support the trans kids, whilst operating a porn blog on the side. (OK, not politics, but very loud!)
Philip Bunce's cross-dressing needs, including his hand-waving, fishnet-wearing, leg bending appropriation of 'womanhood' on the days he feels like it.

And we're meant to listen to these people over female people when thinking about policy-making for the Girl Guides?

I hope the journalists can ask questions about who gave the GG this advice and why and hopefully alert the public to similar issues in Gymnastics and the Allsorts Guidance in schools.

Great post pombear and very astute. The fact these people are so blatant makes all these orgs that don't do due diligence look so much worse.

The Mail online story, which appeared to be a straight copy of the Times one, is not showing on the feed, and still only three comments. I wonder what they are up to.

I hope it means they are planning something bigger.

I’m in awe of you. Funny how the BBC haven’t picked this up..

Leaving aside the choice of user name:

Transgirls are not biological girls, in situations of safeguarding the biological sex is the deciding factor, not the gender identity.

Girls are allowed to become scouts, it's a mixed sex organisation. GG is supposed to be a single sex organisation intended to give girls space away from boys because of the multiply and widely researched negative effect on girls in freedom of expression, confidence etc when males are present. Should girls not be entitled to that?

Who's pushing transpeople out of all spaces? You just said Scouts is mixed sex. This is about the right of girls to have some opportunities in their lives to be away from males, but it's principally about bloody awful safeguarding practice in putting male bodied children with female bodied children, or male bodied adults in sleeping, changing, toileting and showering spaces with female bodied children. This is wide open for a safeguarding disaster and it shouldn't be one that female children have to suck up for male bodied children. There is no way to make that sound ok without believing that female bodied children are intrinsically less important.

Oh hello FuckTERFS, what a lovely introducton to this board you've brought.

Realy trying to address your post, but it's a bit 'word salad'.

To your point 'trans girls aren't any less girls than others and therefore have just as much right to be a GC as all the other girls but what about girls being allowed to become scouts? that's fine because nothing has to change for poor oppressed women and they just get more opportunities now but yeah let's just alienate trans people even more by pushing them out of all spaces because people are concerned that the trans girl who just wants to fit in and be in a safe space with other girls is going to touch up their precious daughters and make things all about 'men'

What the fuck are you saying? I can't parse your paragraph above.

Do you want to try again?

You don't need a single sex space to become a girl. You can do it in a mixed group like the scouts. This does not box you into a corner, and keeps your options open, which is important when you are young.

That is the approach Mr Justice Hayden prefers.

There is a Girl Guiding meeting at Labour Conference apparently. Not sure which day or if it's already happened:

mobile.twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1043790131419893761

The Cornered Tiger Who Came To Tea

The way labour is going these days, dont hold your breath for and sense.