Girlguiding expels leaders who question trans policy

[AgnesBadenPowell]

Well, I guess I knew this was coming. Dissent will not be tolerated. Forget the safety concerns, the privacy and dignity issues, the managing out of gender non-confirming girls. What's really serious is one leader referring to another leader "a nightmare" in a private conversation.

Girl Guide leaders expelled for questioning trans policy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/34139ed0-bea5-11e8-8d21-451ec1df6b83

Two Guide leaders who had raised safeguarding concerns about the organisation’s transgender policy have been expelled and had their units closed down.

Dozens of children face disappointment because there is no one else to run the units. The expelled leaders say they will take legal action against Girlguiding if their removals are upheld.

Helen Watts, one of 12 leaders who signed a letter to The Sunday Times in April asking for a review of the policy, was told on Friday that her membership was being terminated after more than 15 years with the Guides.

At least one other signatory, based in the northwest of England, was expelled. Documents seen by The Sunday Times suggest disciplinary investigations have been launched against at least five Guide leaders.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove copyright materiel]

Yes it has been mentioned and yes they are.

The mail has only allowed 3 comments through.

Why aren't people allowed to talk about this?

The Mail article says that comments are being moderated in advance. Unfortunately, when that happens, they just sometimes don't bother to moderate - the comments disappear in to a black hole. I assume it's to do with a lack of staff. If there's another busy article they'll be modding that instead and ignoring this one.

I hope that if it's been picked up by Mail Online, it will be in the print edition of the Daily Mail tomorrow, and maybe in the Telegraph and some of the tabloids too. It won't be in the Guardian, obviously.

The only way to get a toehold in this is to start lobbying at a county and regional level. It's clear that speaking to chq doesn't make change. Only pressure from senior volunteers will enable debate.
I cannot believe that we have lost what was the biggest and best single sex organisation for girls.

@AgnesBadenPowell did you get any support from county or region?

This is the sleight of hand. Years ago, when there was much controversy about GG remaining a single sex org. I was mired in Anti-Feminism, and I argued against it. Looking back it was very much steered by a prevailing view in the movement of "If boys can't have scouts to themselves, why should girls have GGs?"

Doing a 180, as I have in the intervening years, it's very, very clear to me that this is quite simply a big big win for the Anti-woman crew. They can say with straight faces that they are still a girl's only organization, you silly women. But they can also piss all over the idea of an bona fide separate org. It is the height of cunning.

Is there any way of sharing the full article without a subscription? I know there is limited free access without a subscription but the people I want to share with are not motivated enough to sign up. They just think I am weirdly obsessed and I want them to see how people cannot even have open and honest discussions on trans issues.

If you copy and paste the link with the sharetoken up thread they should be able to read it without signing up.

What are GG afraid of? Do they think people would condemn them for centring the needs of girls and take safeguarding concerns seriously?

The sad thing is, there would be plenty of people willing to condemn them for that. As of course women and girls come last..men and boys and their feelings are much more important. And those who would condemn, would absolutely flood with complaints and screaming about transphobia, I don't think any organisation is willing to take on that. I mean, David Davies, when he sorted the meeting in the houses of parliament..said he had never seen anything like the onslaught his office came under, many businesses that have hosted feminist meetings have said the same. However, places NEED to start standing up to the bullies, or women and girls will lose out, badly.

Here's the share token

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girl-guide-leaders-expelled-for-questioning-trans-policy-550x7m55r?shareToken=90078059261d8e7a5d92d15dfdd9e735

Olennas I read something on here the other day about a company (thinx/spinx?) who are already advertising their underwear products as for people who menstruate. I can't remember which niche market they were targeting, I guess menstruating women - as it would have to be - you know, women and all that, who were transitioning to males.

Agnes I am so sorry and so furious on your behalf. I know you never asked to be the activist you have become but it needed doing and you stepped up willingly despite the considerable personal cost.
Do challenge it and do start a crowdfunder.
Looking forward to hearing you speak in person this week.

Thank you MinecraftHolmes and TimeLady. Do these share tokens expire as the last time I think I used one the article came up as needing a subscription when she tried to view the article?

redexpat - re BP spinning in his grave, well yes, because he was bloody adamant as a misogynistic old tosser that girls shouldn’t be anywhere near the Scouts, so he got his sister to start up a girly organization where they could be of benefit to the country by doing sturdy womany things whilst he trained up the next generation of upright male citizenry.
Lovely Agnes got it all going for the gals, and when the dirty old man BP got married to a slip of a girl, he fucked over his sister and installed his wifey as the Chief Guide instead.
Just a wee bit of history for those not entirely familiar, as our Agnes’s username is a passionate reminder of a woman who worked her guts out for girls in the organization only to be cast aside unfairly by the exec.
Kudos Agnes ❤️💕
(And for anyone that is interested, there has long been a campaign to get the original Agnes BP the recognition she deserved. Nothing against Olave, but recognition where it is due.)

I'm not sure if this has been covered, hard to keep up with all the new information, but does Girlguiding Scotland have the same policies in place? A quick Google seems to me to look like they are a separate organisation, but I'm not sure.

A Human Rights response would be to state that the child is a girl and as such has the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls and to be treated fairly as such.

This is not true.

Waverly they are the same.

Thanks drspouse. Just trying to figure out the whole mess!

Agnes, I am so sorry to read this. Thank you for standing up for the girls and especially given the personal cost to you. I am so angry about the way in which GGUK have behaved on this.

What a bag of utter shit weasels.

I cannot believe this - why is this the hill GG are prepared to die on? You’d have thought having been told over and over they’ve been advised wrongly they’d think “phew!”, but they just keep digging in further.

Why?

Step aside girls, a penis is coming along...

Julie Bentley has been answering some questions on twitter
mobile.twitter.com/PankhurstEM/status/1043856742600380417

Girlguiding Scotland's inclusion policy on their website says that Girlguiding believes in being fair, open and inclusive. Members and supporters are welcomed irrespective of faith, race, culture, nationality or sexual orientation.

www.girlguidingscotland.org.uk/parents/open-to-all/

It may be worth emailing them to ask if they are adopting the same (poorly advised) policy as the main body.