Last night the Fire Brigade Union gave in

[TimeForDebate]

The FBU has voted in favour of self ID - one of the few unions to abstain from voting at TUC has fallen. Women are a minority in the Fire & Rescue Service. 30 women firefighters have signed a letter of protest so far:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/20/backlash-fire-brigades-union-votes-favour-gender-self-identification/

Bollocks. Is there anything we can do to help?

Oh fucking hell

lucy massoud must be livid

From the article

The all-male national executivevoted on Thursday night in favour of allowinggender self declarationby eight votes to three, the Telegraph understands. The vote will now go out to each region to consult on.

Female memberssay they were not consulted and warned it will have huge implications for women, who make up just seven per cent of the force, regarding changing facilities and single sex

*Yannick Dubois, chair of the FBU’s LGBT group, claimed there had been a lot of “scaremongering” about the GRA based on misunderstanding.

She said: “Self declaration means going through a long and complex process. People don’t go through it just so they can use the women’s toilets.”*

If self-ID means a long and complex process to change gender, then what the hell is the point of self ID? I thought the whole point was that it was supposed to simplify the process?

Oh and people being able to access the women's toilets - she means MEN

This is really sad.

She said: “Self declaration means going through a long and complex process. People don’t go through it just so they can use the women’s toilets

The whole point of self-id is not to.

Fucking hell

Bastards. I'd love evidence of the pressure they were put under, and what form it took over those few days between the abstention and surrender, to compel their compliance. That should be a matter of public record.

As for 'Self declaration means going through a long and complex process. People don’t go through it just so they can use the women’s toilets' - words fail. Can't these people read? How do people this stupid get into positions of responsibility?

Proposed Self ID - whatever process of signing.

In actual, real, functional situations women are worried about: - no ID required, since challenging people by appearance and demanding identification is othering, demeaning, whole lot of other words.

So practically: No one needs to sign anything. Any man, with any appearance and any intentions whether trans or not, self IDs by walking into a women's facillity' and immediately invokes all the protections thereof. ANY recognisably male individual in the womens facilities MUST be assumed to be trans and protected as such. So until he does something you can actually call the police for (and good luck with that, in my county you might get a call back in 3 or 4 days time and a crime number) your options are let him crack on or leave.

Also practically: when the government and TRA lobby gleefully and joyfully announce self ID in the papers - that any women's facility is now freely available to anyone born male and women can't refuse - what might possibly be the effect of this becoming common knowledge? Hmm? And which biological sex are going to pay the price? And how can anyone be so thick as to not seeing this fucking great juggernaut speeding down towards us?

What could possibly be long and complicated about self ID? I’m a woman. Alright then. That took ages

Knick
Excellent post.

So sad to hear this. Sometimes it looks like we're getting somewhere. Then I realise that we really aren't.

Pips / Pippa Bunce is living proof that it does not "take ages" - he / she chooses each morning, depending on mood.

We are. They have back up plan after back up plan. They're having to resort to them because the GRA is not going well and there are signals that the government will push it into the long grass. It's more of the effort to change policy without changing the law. But the law stands, and will stand, and we can reverse the policy changes one by fucking one.

Oh come on. Did we really think the macho men of the fire service were on the side of women?

When this is kicked into the long grass by the govt. I will march to repeal the GRA.

Same. We take the ball and we run with it.

She said: “Self declaration means going through a long and complex process.

No it doesn't. That's the point.

If the FBU spokeswoman can make such a basic error as that comment about long & complex, then it shows they have no idea what this is about.

The staggering ignorance of that spokesperson!

I was so disappointed at this. Really disgusting misogyny, men defining what women are again.

Total lack of respect for the female firefighters who had to fight hard for safe female facilities in the first place.

If the FBU spokeswoman can make such a basic error as that comment about long & complex, then it shows they have no idea what this is about.

This. So many of these virtue signalling useful idiots don't.

The trouble is that if it is kicked into the long grass by the government - which will be yet another act of abject cowardice - it will just continue to creep in by stealth as it is doing, until it's regarded as normality. Then the TRA facetious argument of 'you've had it for years and not minded' will be trotted out as a fait accompli.

I really am increasingly thinking that trying to do this through normal channels and trusting in due process, writing letters to MPs etc is pointless. As anyone who reads the relationship board knows; you cannot engage with narcissism, personality disorders and toxicity via the normal social contract, because they don't exist in that reality or accept those boundaries. This needs to be a flat refusal by women to go along with it.

I agree that we then need to switch effort to repealing the GRA and getting privacy and dignity for women as a sex class written into the law as a right and move that Overton window across.

And yes I think we are going to have to do a lot of non violent direct action.

The all-male national executivevoted on Thursday night in favour of allowinggender self declarationby eight votes to three, the Telegraph understands.

Says it all really.