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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives

678 replies

CharlieWork · 20/09/2018 21:19

Aaaaaaaarrrggghhhh.

Looks like his maleness was has worked for him and he gets to be recognised as a top female too.

Just why?

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives
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21
nauticant · 21/09/2018 09:35

Does that mean that there are some days when Pips Bunce uses their hemispheres and other days when they don't?

OvaMyDeadBody · 21/09/2018 09:36

Another one here who knew it would be Phil/Pips before opening the thread. I hope Pips has all the advantages of being female, like being paid less than the men. That must be a nightmare for payroll. Oh, it doesn't happen you say? Strange, that...

theredjellybean · 21/09/2018 09:40

I know the credit suisse champion of diversity and women in business... Yep you guessed it, its another white middle class male.
He doesn't wear a dress though.
He is Mr bunce's peer and Co lead on lots of these issues.
In fairness he is a lovely person who thinks very hard about the issues and works hard to support females in his world wide team to achieve and combine family and career.

But the irony that the womans champion is a bloke was lost on him.

littlbrowndog · 21/09/2018 09:42

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beenandgoneandbackagain · 21/09/2018 09:43

nauticant Thank you for reminding me about that thread. From that, and other previous threads on similar subjects, I hope and pray that P's wife is a Mumsnetter and is getting support.

Pre #peaktrans I used to think that such wives were very supportive and understanding, now I realise they are just trapped by another form of abusive male and have my utmost sympathy.

ILuvBirdsEye · 21/09/2018 09:44

Does Pippa come out after equal pay day?
If so, she must be super mad at Phillip.

I do all the hard work and you get the pay?

WhatInTheWorldIsGoingOn · 21/09/2018 09:45

Things like this actually hurt my brain. It tries so hard to process such stupidity but it just can’t. It actually hurts me to read things like this.

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2018 09:50

In fairness he is a lovely person who thinks very hard about the issues

Could he be encouraged to think a bit harder? I don't think it's too difficult a concept to grasp that a man who cross dresses occasionally isn't actually female or deserving of female awards.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/09/2018 09:50

Hi Pips. Fair Play to you. You have pushed back the boundaries that society places on gender expression.

Getting an award specifically meant for 'females' because he sometimes wears women's clothes reinforces gender stereotypes for women.

Pips would have been pushing back the bounds that society places on gender expression if he'd won an award meant for men (or for either sex) as a man but in female clothes. Although, in truth he wouldn't be pushing them back very far at this point because Perry Grayson getting his CBE from the Palace from Charles (who was evidently not at all fazed by a bloke wearing an outfit Camilla might have chosen) has already proved that it's actually not a big deal in the 21st century.

But is it wise to accept places designed to promote women who battle for recognition in a sexist world?

Im glad Debbie said that, with polite, careful phrasing - because Pips will look very bad if he deletes it and there's surely no good rebuttal. Debbie's objection may well be from the POV of 'cut it out, mate, it's bad for the trans cause' but it does spell out why awards specifically for women exist.

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2018 09:53

WTF is the FT playing at, enabling this misogynistic bullshit?

Jumping on the train to Woking before they get left behind.

ShirleyPhallus · 21/09/2018 09:53

The bottom reply on LinkedIn Grin

Man in Dress listed as Top 100 FEMALE Executives
NormalPeople · 21/09/2018 10:01

My head hurts so much with this.

Let's assume for a moment you accept that he is a man half the week and a woman the other half, however that would work, let's assume you believe that can happen. It would be Pippa getting that female award. So why is Pips Bunce even referenced in the tweet and why is it Pips Bunce quoted as being 'truly honoured' etc?

I mean, I just even...It makes no actual sense even if you buy into it all.

I feel for his female colleagues. The ones who can apparently legitimately boot him out of the female toilets on Tuesdays & Thursdays (or whatever) and call the police if he refuses to go heavy eye roll but not on Mon, Weds & Fri (or whatever), because DRESS & LIPSTICK.

ILuvBirdsEye · 21/09/2018 10:01

Woking must be having a major over crowding problem!

This is so ridiculous I can't even take it seriously. The anger will come, hopefully a slow burner....

BeyondAnOmnishambles · 21/09/2018 10:03

On Pips' laydee days, is Pips identifying as Elle Woods...? Confused

Magicstar1 · 21/09/2018 10:03

Bloody hell, I just want to scream. He calls himself "gender variant" and gets an award like this. It makes me so mad that people can't see what's going on in front of them. People are falling over themselves to show how supportive they are, and how they are cool with the whole trans movement...it's the Emperor's New Clothes!

BeyondAnOmnishambles · 21/09/2018 10:05

Also: query...

If Pips wins a women's award, what happens if the awards ceremony lands on a Man Day?

Datun · 21/09/2018 10:06

I know the credit suisse champion of diversity and women in business... Yep you guessed it, its another white middle class male.
He doesn't wear a dress though.
He is Mr bunce's peer and Co lead on lots of these issues.
In fairness he is a lovely person who thinks very hard about the issues and works hard to support females in his world wide team to achieve and combine family and career.

But the irony that the womans champion is a bloke was lost on him.

I know we all get frustrated, angry, infuriated, sad, depressed, despairing over all this.

But this particular comment has really got me.

What the fucking fuck goes through the head of a person like this? A person who understands the issues that women are up against. A person who wants to help them. A decent person.

What, just what, do they think Philip Bunce is demonstrating here?

Nothing Bunce is doing is helping women. That's the first, obvious thing. No nuance needed to see it, no interpretation to be had. None of it benefits women.

Is this where his peer stops thinking? Okay, it might not be helping women...

That's it.

How can he not then see how it's harming women? It's like he thinks it doesn't help them, and then just stops thinking.

What I've concluded, and what's upset me, is that even the nicest people still believe that women are less than. Just like I know my dog is a dog.

But the irony that the womans champion is a bloke was lost on him.

He doesn't see it. Women being second rate is so correct, it's just part of his psyche.

OvaHere · 21/09/2018 10:10

I was heartened to see there wasn't one supportive or positive comment on the Credit Suisse twitter thread (apart from the one by Bunce himself).

What the hell are they playing at? Any other subject that attracted this much ire and criticism would be followed by a swift apology. I guess offending women just doesn't count as real offence unless the woman in question is a man.

FermatsTheorem · 21/09/2018 10:10

What I've concluded, and what's upset me, is that even the nicest people still believe that women are less than. Just like I know my dog is a dog.

quote But the irony that the womans champion is a bloke was lost on him. unquote

He doesn't see it. Women being second rate is so correct, it's just part of his psyche.

I think this is it. This type of man really does hold the "nice, well trained doggie" view of women so firmly that when one of his mates dresses up as a woman, he (the first man) genuinely believes his mate is doing women a favour, by voluntarily lowering himself to their status, then showing them how this womaning business can be done better. Because after all who would voluntarily lower their status unless they were a nice guy?

QueenBean · 21/09/2018 10:13

I was heartened to see there wasn't one supportive or positive comment on the Credit Suisse twitter thread (apart from the one by Bunce himself).

Absolutely

CrackpotsArePots · 21/09/2018 10:18

Fermats

Or he just feels really sorry for them. Because he knows they are inadequate. But what we women know is that inadequate men are amongst the most dangerous

StealthNinjaMum · 21/09/2018 10:18

I'm sorry but I just can't see the male champion of diversity and women in business as being anything other than a short-sighted, unempathic dickhead - even if he seems a nice guy. I wouldn't dream of taking a position that has me championing or representing a group of which I'm not a member - whether that be men, lesbians, people with disabilities etc. I could have an opinion on the discrimination they face, and I would hope some empathy, but to fucking champion them? No I do not have the experience. I am even more angry to know there are two men in that organisation shitting on women.

partystress · 21/09/2018 10:20

Tolstoyatemyhamster your male colleagues are expressing something my Dd hears all the time at school. Teenage boys claiming feminism is prejudice against men and boys, and that girls and women have too many rights. These are 14 and 15 year olds, and I worry for the girls they will be getting into relationships with where those attitudes might lead. Something I heard on the radio yesterday really hit me in relation to all of this, and Brexit and Trump: When privilege is your normal, equality feels like oppression.

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2018 10:23

Woking must be having a major over crowding problem!

Yes Grin

Ereshkigal · 21/09/2018 10:25

What I've concluded, and what's upset me, is that even the nicest people still believe that women are less than. Just like I know my dog is a dog.

YY.