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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women on the left are responsible for austerity

657 replies

CarrotyO · 17/09/2018 21:59

I've heard it said that women on the left actually support and are therefore in some way responsible for austerity. This is because both Labour and the Tories support austerity. Therefore any woman who supports Labour, or the Left in general, also knowingly and consciously supports austerity and are therefore also responsible for the 1000s of deaths of disabled people caused by austerity. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 07:58

Caroty No you are not. You started a thread to abuse me because your identity was injured by me discussing the structure of political consensus and you are not fighting anything. Your bullshit identity formed around student politics is largelyt used to abuse women and support their abuse when their reality shows you up. Now as the only thing offered to this thread was foraging advice what do I do with this squirrel?

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:01

Ffs. And the only reason I brought up my political leanings was to stop you saying that my question is due to my identifying with labour. And despite 20 pages of being ridiculed for that you are still repeating that bollocks. Wtaf is wrong with you.

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CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:02

I’m not talking to you now Lisa. I am asking the other women on this thread why they agree with these opinions you are stating - that wp is becoming a political machine for labour.

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:02

You started a thread to abuse ME, you targeted ME, and you deserve ridicule. Sorry was I supposed to cry and not say anything? Is that how it works. No thats not how it works. You started a thread to abuse me because reality injured your identity and now you want to pretend its something it isnt. Its not. Try am sorry.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:06

I don’t identify with “the left”, imo societies problems run much deeper than which political party achieves power. I’m not sure what is so difficult for people to grasp about that.

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:10

The bit where you went apeshit because I said that the left were part of holding up a consensus and hten started a thread specifically misrepresented what I said? That indicates you do. I am very tired of your mendaciousness, manipulatioon, utterly ridiculous stupidity. You dont want to be ridiculed dont start threads to abuse women. Its that simple. Dont do that. Now you are either a bully who had hoped to just upset me or you have problems with perceiving reality and you do not know why starting a thread JUSt to abuse someone doesnt make you the victim. Your identity doesnt matter to me. Your abuse of me and your support of putting a woman at risk of violence does. Thats it.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:12

Women have said that wp are more interested in preserving labour and that their future focus will be preventing discussion on political consensus. Please can women show me the updated campaign demands because I must have missed them. Was it mentioned in their recent consultation guidance?

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BettyDuMonde · 19/09/2018 08:13

NancyToo I wrote this in response to your post, but it’s also a general response to this entire thread (and what took place across a number of other threads yesterday and the day before).

Agree with Waters.

Lisa’s position has consistently been misrepresented using a combination of subtle misquoting, inaccurate attribution and altered context.

If I am charitable, I could assume this was due to a genuine misunderstanding, Lisa’s idiosyncratic writing style and glossary of terms relating to institutional systems were alien to me when I first encountered them.

However, Lisa’s opinions are consistent across a number of blog posts (years and years worth) and YouTube videos, so it’s not hard to clarify her positions, and indeed, she has given multiple answers right here, on these threads.
We’ve all been watching her do it, only some people seem to have wilfully misunderstood her answers.

As for ‘be nice and stop talking about squirrels’ well...

If people didn’t demand we declare 100% agreement with an individual’s opinions with (what appears to be the intent) of weaponising any even slightly dissenting answers against that individual, we wouldn’t have to resort to demonstrating solidarity by talking at tangents.
We recognised an attempt to isolate Lisa from the rest of us (via manufactured conflict) and we resisted it.

For the record, i don’t always agree entirely with all of Lisa’s stated viewpoints, but much of Lisa’s current commentary is prediction, so agreement isn’t actually required.
What I do know is that Lisa’s past predictions, made through her particular understanding of systems, institutions and power dynamics, have turned out to be eerily prophetic.
I have no reason to believe that won’t be the case here, and that makes her well worth listening to, in my opinion.

Safeguarding IS prediction.
It’s knowing what could happen, and what the worst case consequences would be if it did happen and it’s taking steps to prevent those consequences occurring.

If Lisa concluded that a particular action by WPUK, or by a person associated with WPUK had the potential of causing harm, either to an individual or lots of individuals, and no one at WPUK seemed to be aware of that potential to cause harm, then Lisa is obligated to point that out, no?

From what I can see, Lisa has been pointing out the potential for austerity to cause large scale harm for almost a decade, and now those predictions have been proved true.

I am inclined to err on the side of believing her safeguarding predictions.

It’s not nice to be told your actions put another person in harms way, but developing enough humility to learn from your mistakes and minimise your likelihood of putting further people in harms way is surely the appropriate response?

I’m a ‘woman on the left’ and I’m not at all offended by Lisa’s assertions. I see them as an opportunity for learning and yes. a chance to correct a blind spot of my own. We all have them.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:15

Lisa we got into a discussion started by another woman which derailed the thread and I was asked to start a new one. You initially were happy to engage. I am not abusing you. I don’t know you and really don’t have ill feelings towards you. All of my comments are polite. I am questioning the views that you and other women hold about wp.

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:16

Carotyo I am beginning to wonder what your issue is. You are going round in circles here trying to avoid why you just abused me and why your identity is relevant to posie parker and her kids being put at risk. You appear upset that I joked about your attempt to abuse me. Was another outcome desired?

SlothSlothSloth · 19/09/2018 08:17

Completely mad but really interesting thread.

I can only imagine this Lisa must be Twitter-famous or something from the way so many people are fawning over her. Her posts are utterly incoherent.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:18

For the record, I don’t care what women’s views are on Lisa or whether they agree with everything she says. I am honestly not wilfully misrepresenting her. Everything I have written has been my interpretation and this thread has been so difficult as no one is taking my comments in good faith. I am genuinely asking for clarity. I want to understand the smears against wp.

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:19

Slothslothsloth No am just a mum and am not on twitter and my youtube account gets less than 200 views a video. So one can only wonder why you sought me out to insult me. Hmm. Famous in some way?

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:20

Disagreement is not abuse. I’m not upset don’t worry.

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lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:20

You started a thread with the sole aim of misrepresentaing and abusing me Caroty. You havent offered a single explanation of why this was ok and you appear to just keep gaslighting. @caroty

SlothSlothSloth · 19/09/2018 08:28

I didn’t seek you out, Lisa. I just read the thread and was baffled by the positive reception your posts were getting.

Caroty, while I don’t agree with all that you say and have my own issues with feminists who identify as anarchists specifically, some of your posts have been really thought-provoking. But anyone could have predicted the response they would get on here. You should have known it would be like this.

lisamuggeridge · 19/09/2018 08:29

Slothslothsloth you are not very good at this. You just happened across the thread did you do and you just felt compelled to be a bit nasty out of the blue. I MUST be famous. That must be why.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:30

Sorry I didn’t predict. I wanted people to discuss the ideas being put forth.

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CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:33

I regret saying I’m an “anarcho-primitivist”. I said it as a way of showing people I think the problems in society run much deeper than party politics as I was being accused of being triggered due to an allegiance with the left. The detail into discussing and belittling these views was not my intention, it wasn’t the purpose of the thread.

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CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:33

Derail*

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CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:35

Please stop making everything so personal Lisa. I want to specifically discuss the smears against wp.

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LangCleg · 19/09/2018 08:35

We recognised an attempt to isolate Lisa from the rest of us (via manufactured conflict) and we resisted it.

This. Same impulse that made us disapprove of shunning Posie within an environment where withdrawing solidarity from a woman leaves her doubly vulnerable to dangerous activists currently at the beginning of narc rage because they thought they had won and they hadn't. It has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting any views of Posie's. It's about not rowing away in the lifeboat before all the women are on board.

NancyToo - thank you for acknowledging that we should all be told what has been said at these confidential meetings. This is an important point. I have not given anyone permission to represent me in backroom bargaining.

NettleTea · 19/09/2018 08:41

As you quoted me, I will say that Yes, having been involved in the groups and campaigning, I would broadly agree with what Lisa says

Yes, WPUK (and FPFW to an extend,) have a very tight control over how any message is put out, and where FPFW's control is about not alienating the public and getting the conversation shut down by them thinking we may not be nice, WPUK have close affiliation with Labour and so have an eye to working within the current Labour framework.

And regarding squirrels, nut season is the best time to get one. So coming up to about now. Haunches are the only bit worth eating, and young squirrels only - my friend got very sick eating an old boy and that put him off for life. In woodland squirrels are a bit of a pest, so hunt away. Please leave the hedgehogs though, and a badger is rough as old boots. Dont waste you time on a weasel, barely a mouthfull and very wriggly

NancyToo · 19/09/2018 08:43

This is ridiculous. Even an attempt to placate you Lisa. I said I am sorry for asking the question. It was asked because
I saw somewhere (over the weekend when SM went mad because PP, her children and her MOTHER had been doxxed) that you attributed this to WP in some way. Which you did. Which is why I asked the first question. I was wrong to ask it. I could write long post but I'm not going to because you seriously wont stop. Honestly? I don't know exactly where I read it, thought it was twitter in a discussion with others but it's not there so maybe I dreamt it.

I don't want you to insult me, or other people, to sling wild accusations, conspiracy theories and draw them from other people.

I didn't ask for my OP on the other thread or here to be removed.
I said I got it wrong and in truth I am slowly backing off. I don't know you.

I WISH I HAD NOT ASKED AND I'M SORRY.

If people look at all this they won't see me or Carroty (who I also don't know) going off wildly. I'm sorry for anything I have done to make you feel worse.

And thanks to the rest of you for enjoying an early morning stir of the pot.

I don't know what else I can say.

CarrotyO · 19/09/2018 08:43

Wow. What a bizarre conclusion. So you think that questioning one of someone’s opinions is an attempt to shun the entire person? And that therefore you have to agree with that opinion in order to show solidarity? You actually think that? We have to agree with someone’s political view in order to show solidarity?

That is hilarious. That is exactly the logic that props up twaw.

So people must agree with and propagate smears against wp in order to show solidarity with Lisa.

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