MNHQ: I'd like to start a thread about the reality of phalloplasty without it being deleted

[BarrackerBarmer]

MNHQ has already deleted one thread "not in the spirit".

Fair enough.

Please lay out exactly how I can start a thread about phalloplasty, with images (of arms, not of penises).
This is important. Thousands of girls are identifying as boys, and the medical pathway for those girls includes breastbinding, double mastectomies, hysterectomies and phalloplasties.

Guidance from many institutions is unquestioning affirmation.

I want to discuss this. Truthfully.

Tell me how I can do this without MNHQ deleting my thread and I will follow your rules to the letter.

Or tell the thousands of women on this site that we are forbidden from discussing the outcome of SRS for girls entirely.

What are your rules please?

From the article

The surgeons take a couple of nerves from the arm and the inner thigh to hook up to the clitoral nerve to give you the erotic sensation. The nerves are still growing and changing. It won’t be the same as a penis, but it is amazing.

I can still orgasm, but it’s different, it takes a bit longer.

Presumably, if the stimulation of former forearm skin can trigger an impulse in the clitoral nerve, it doesn’t matter that the stimulated tissue isn’t clitoris?

(Clearly, I’m not a neurologist!)

Not that I’m arguing that this is a good idea, but if the person says they can climax, that’s a better outcome than others that don’t bear thinking about.

Being able to wee standing up seems to be a big motivation for having the surgery

In these modern times of face transplants etc it's surprising they don't use donated penises.

Unfortunately when the person telling you something is also telling you that they have changed sex, how can you trust anything they say ?

I have heard online claims from biological males who claim they are women ranging from 'I have periods, without the blood', 'I can get pregnant', 'I am a biological female'. All lies, biology exists and sex changes do not.

Best you can hope for, after years of hormones and surgery is to externally LOOK like the other sex, no-one can ever BE the other sex.

So whilst this person claims to orgasm from rolled up arm skin with nerve attached, I do not believe it, especially as they also claim they are male.

This is going to be depressing, but, what if the person referenced above has never had an orgasm and therefore thinks that "vaguely pleasant sensation like what you get from someone gently stroking your arm" is what one feels like?

That's a real possibility AAK.

in all likelihood, once you've invested so heavily in such a distorted reality, you must be able to easily adjust to any redefinition of any concept to suit your needs.

Words really can be reinterpreted to mean anything in the world of the desperate. All words, all realities.

“Surgery doesn’t happen in the UK until you are 18”
18 !! How many of us were mature enough at 18 to make that sort of a decision? You can’t get sterilised if you are under 25, unless... trans.
For cosmetic breast surgery 18 is considered very young, lots of surgeons would be reluctant to do it then, as some girls will still be growing. I started my periods at 16, I was still not fully grown at 18, physically or emotionally.
We should have an absolute ban on any SRS surgery under 25. We now know that the brain isn’t mature until 25. How can we be a civilised society if we are mutilating teenagers ? Does anyone know what happens to the clitoris when a phalloplasty is performed ?
I am another who cried seeing Sandy’s drawing. Heartbreaking. A friend’s daughter is in the midst of ROGD and I am so scared she will end up wearing binders, sterilised, having surgery. I am raging at the absolute idiots who support this, the MPs, the oh-so-woke people who supported Aimee Challenor etc. Stonewall. The creepy people who go into schools and show children books like that penguin one. It is so sinister.
This is a cult and it is completely and utterly wrong.

current threads following tweet by a transman:
OP pombear wrote:
"Whilst I understand the urge, driven by the current affirmation culture, to get what you believe you need - the linking to incorrect research, and yet again disregarding advice from mental health organisations such as the Samaritans about discussion around suicide. And the lack of self-awareness. This isn't a great look:

"Trans patients were called last week and informed their long-awaited top surgery had been cancelled to let more cancer mastectomies happen. It’s not their responsibility.

Our surgery is not cosmetic.
Transgender wait times are fatal and I #WontDieWaiting "

twitter.com/TobySinbad/status/1041589969410838529

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3368685-Shocking-Top-surgery-deprioritised-due-to-cancer-mastectomies

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3368777-To-think-that-in-the-current-dire-state-of-the-NHS-finances-its-a-no-brainer-that-first-priority-for-mastectomies-goes-to-cancer-patients

Also recent threads following recent announcement that NHS was facing pressure and possible legal challenge to provide parity of fertility treatment for those undergoing medical interventions associated with gender identity transition to those undergoing cancer treatment:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3326933-NHS-told-give-trans-patients-equal-access-to-fertility-service

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3333708-NHS-faces-lawsuit-for-not-funding-fertility-services-for-transgenders-who-want-kids

Excellent point,AAK

That person says they can orgasm. They don't say how.

Good point AAK

Especially true for those who went onto blockers or other medical treatment at an early age (which can have an effect on sexual function). Or those who sexual experiences are limited to unsatisfactory and perfunctory fumbles with unskilled teenaged boys (often the case for teen girls, particularly those who later realise that they are gay)

I have, though, read slightly dubious claims from AGPs transwomen who had bottom surgery at a much later age that they had all consuming, full waves of orgasm over their whole body. And I have no idea how that is possible from removing a penis and scrotum, using the tip of the penis to create something vaguely clitoral and inverting the scrotum to create a hole.

I'm bumping this

there seem to be a lot of people around at the moment who are in favour of being 'kind' to children who identify as trans without understanding what their 'kindness' involves

gender ideology encourages young women to permanently damage their healthy bodies.

to have their healthy breasts cut off

to be dependent on taking drugs to look the way they want, coincidentally giving themselves permanent long term health issues and rendering themselves infertile

in extreme cases to undergo surgery that flays the skin from their forearm to create a pretend 'penis'

own your 'kindness', understand your 'kindness'

being woke on the internet may make you feel good, but this is what it really means

I was on a deleted thread with forearm images. Perhaps it was the deleted one. It was shocking to me. Yes, people really do need to see and read the reality of transmen, who decide to have bottom surgery.

The photos are horrific. Sadly the language and emotions which are used around this is so - well you know.

I’ve read about surgery and it’s reality on twitter (Scott, etc) and it’s shocking that young people are not taking a step back from the belief system that it is all going to be perfect, they will get the outcome that they want... and that woman (Irish?) surgeon in the states who makes jaunty tik toc promos for her mastectomy surgery (like it’s a huge jolly jape) and posts photos of her young ‘clients’ (and these are children, some still with puppy fat and baby faces, so I’m guessing early teens?), some clothes but some showing their scars... (usually with their turning moms standing next to them grinning away).

Interesting to see this, thanks for the bump. We know so much more since this thread was created.

Worth taking a step back to 2018 when we were looking at the GRA and contemplate what has happened since.

A timely bump

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I'm bumping this

there seem to be a lot of people around at the moment who are in favour of being 'kind' to children who identify as trans without understanding what their 'kindness' involves

gender ideology encourages young women to permanently damage their healthy bodies.

to have their healthy breasts cut off

to be dependent on taking drugs to look the way they want, coincidentally giving themselves permanent long term health issues and rendering themselves infertile

in extreme cases to undergo surgery that flays the skin from their forearm to create a pretend 'penis'

own your 'kindness', understand your 'kindness'

being woke on the internet may make you feel good, but this is what it really means

Thanks @BernardBlackMissesLangCleg for posting.

I am intersex, born with a "micro penis", I have been offered many surgeries to "fix" my genitalia for 40 years.

It is shocking to see vulnerable young, HEALTHY, women being dragged down this route.

I lived as female from age 9 - 19.

I know what testosterone can do to XX female,

It will shorten her life expectancy, make her infertile, create heart issues, and kidney probs. Can cause endometriosis which does not go away following hysterectomy.

Any phalloplasty will lead to regret, believe me.

Why surrender a healthy body to became as ill as I have been, - DO NOT DO IT.

Biological sex change is impossible. The fantasy of becoming the opposite biological sex is just that - A FANTASY.

Save you health- before too late.

I took synthetic testosterone for 10 years, YES helped me look male, BUT biology won't be changed. I have many female related issues now.... don't fight ur biology, embrace it. We can all live the life we want, but reality won't budge.

Please please think.

I have seen too many young women following this path, and all end in sadness.

U can dress as ID as, a male, u can reduce size of breasts etc, BUT please do not seek phalloplasty, .....

I have undergone so many surgeries due to my condition, MOST essential for life.

Now in 50's having, hopefully last, this time to "tidy up" my genitalia.

But not to chase a fantasy. Maintain as much as your natural sexual sensation as possible. Have a function clitoris is better than a messed up "phalloplasty" lump.

I am more than happy to address any issue I discuss on a private message.. THINK !

Thank you sharing @Alex2112. I admire your conviction in your post. It's a brave thing to accept choices we have made have harmed us and then rise above our egos to warn others not to follow our mistakes. It's also compassionate. Far easier to just make believe there's no problem and not draw attention to one's problems.

I hope this last OP goes well for you x

I second that, a very powerful post Alex - so much so it's basically a public service!

I also admire your bravery in speaking out, I always feel terrible for those with DSD conditions being dragged into hideous public rows to 'prove sex is a spectrum'.

Truly it shouldn't need bravery as it should be something we can talk about, but not to weaponise the 'debate' and make people like you as political footballs.

@DysonSphere

Thank you sharing *@Alex2112*. I admire your conviction in your post. It's a brave thing to accept choices we have made have harmed us and then rise above our egos to warn others not to follow our mistakes. It's also compassionate. Far easier to just make believe there's no problem and not draw attention to one's problems.

I hope this last OP goes well for you x

Thank you @DysonSphere

My words are really to warn ANY human being who thinks they are in wrong body, and that ANY cross sex hormones will change their biology. It is impossible, Be happy in a healthy state they are in.

I would've died in my teens without intervention.

Now in my 50's, living as a male, the next surgery will mean loss of micro penis [a genitoplasty] normally a procedure carried out on infants who present with abnormal genitalia. The micro penis, no larger that an enlarged clitoris, is now dysfunctional. I had avoided castration as had opted to live as male from age 19

(Had already lost the one testes i had). So will end up effectively with regular female genitalia. And remaining scrotal skin will be used to improve labia, [Labiaplasty] and glans from micro penis will be used to create clitorus [clitoplasty] .. I, along with my female partner, always were aware it might come to this. Endometriosis etc is not a kind condition,, i will continue to adapt, and sexual sensations will be maintained as best as possible.

If you have a "normal" and healthy body , please do not get hooked on aa sick fantasy that you can change your sex.

That's why i find it so so sad when I see pics of young women have double mastectomy, and having health wrecking mutilating surgery to follow a fantasy, - they can live as masculine women, AND remain healthy. ALL humans adapt to their own biology, a gift from nature, and your parents... DO NOT THROW IT AWAY.

Sorry if it sounds I am so against trans treatments, but to be it is madness. No parent should allow their kids to follow this path, no medical professional should be involved. Yes people have issues, body issues, puberty issues - BUT can be overcome... I lived as regular female, and coped with all that.. anyone can... it is part of life.

@OhHolyJesus

I second that, a very powerful post Alex - so much so it's basically a public service!

I also admire your bravery in speaking out, I always feel terrible for those with DSD conditions being dragged into hideous public rows to 'prove sex is a spectrum'.

Truly it shouldn't need bravery as it should be something we can talk about, but not to weaponise the 'debate' and make people like you as political footballs.

Thanks @OhHolyJesus.. yes sadly intersex issues have been used to validate trans ideology. I do not usually admit my intersex issues on social media, as still so much stigma about being a bit of both, and living as a male, can be tough having female issues .. I live in sleath as best as possible.

I should speak out more, i am a coward and hide, not bravery at all.

Sadly if i voice the facts it is called "bigotry" "transphobia" or i am called a T.E.R.F. - but I cannot bare to see so many kids lives wrecked, and women's rights being undermined.

I have helped a few parents to stop their kids, or at worse slow down the process to bring hope they don't go too far...

Thank you for your support.

Alex
Thank you for sharing. I hope that your next operation will be a success. I’m so sorry that people with differences in sexual development have been used as the poster child for ‘proof’ that sex is a spectrum and that therefore magical trauma free sex change with is possible.

What you said about not being happy with the result of surgery reminded me of Debbie and this sad article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50548473

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]Alex
Thank you for sharing. I hope that your next operation will be a success. I’m so sorry that people with differences in sexual development have been used as the poster child for ‘proof’ that sex is a spectrum and that therefore magical trauma free sex change with is possible.

What you said about not being happy with the result of surgery reminded me of Debbie and this sad article. www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50548473[/quote]
Thanks @Mummyoflittledragon for kind words, all of my surgeries have been for medical need. As with proposed one this year. The NHS have been awesome with all my issues. Saving my life more than once.

I totally get why Debbie regrets her choices, and it should be used to show how regret is so common, she knows she made choices that were crazy for her health and life. So so sad.

I have a endocrinologist for my issues, sadly sex changes are happening without the involvement of endocrinologists, THEY KNOW the long term effects of cross sex hormones on any human. she would do all she could to say NO NO NO.

Too late for Debbie in so many levels, She can now warn others.

I never had any surgery to my penis, it functioned, and i had an understanding wife, and now an understanding female partner.

We will sadly see TOO many of cases like Debbie in the next 20 years, and the NHS and tax payer will be paying the price .

Most trans men or trans masc people are not interested in phalloplasty.

Those that are have usually googled just about every picture on the planet. That doesn’t deter them if they’re really determined, if anything it strengthens their resolve.

Hope your surgery goes well Alex and wishing you a speedy recovery (and a NHS team that will sneak in lots of goodies after your operation!) Thanks for sharing your experience.