Yes @carrotyd it was done openly. So the question is why you do not recognise it not whether I have evidence. It was done so people would notice, it was done openly. and the consequences played out openly so the question you wish to ask is not the one you asked. Now as there is no chance of it becoming acceptable to do that, as it was done openly and a boundary has been set, I see no sense in me spending my time fending off(and so far we hvae had) gaslighting, outright calling me a liar, and deliberately obscuring what happened. Thats shame. It is appropriate. Noone has been anything but supportive of WPUK, noone has suggested that its overridden anything that WPUK has done which has been great, but if you are suggesting that we ignore it, no. We have children and this way of doing politics has excluded women from their own political machinery long enogh. I dont want to clog up this thread with the people who are going to keep cropping up trying to get me to pretend what happened openly did not. The issue here is reluctance to take responsibility for the hopefully unintended consequence and reluctance to accept that women have the right to say it is unacceptable to attempt to coerce and discipline and prevent women speaking with the threat of activists we are fighting. I would suggest working on that but it doesnt matter how many pop up to try and derail that, gaslight, say the problem ism e, that this is defamation. It was done openly. Shame is appropriate at what was done but it is not my responsobility to deal with that. Now I have not used this thread to openly discuss the other examples of exactly the same thing from exactly the same women for exactly the same reason but I have no fear of doing so. I dont think its helpful, and I dont think its necessary but I have no qualms about dealing with abusive behaviour and if you cannot tell the difference between actions which put children at risk and those which do not I suggest you rectify that cos we all have kids and unlike the women at the centre of this we do not hae the cushion of other peoples trade unions, a political party, and powerful friends and to use violence and the threat of violence to silence women from the action they have to take because they dont have that is not ok. Its not going to become ok if you gaslight, sealion and pretend noone needs to take responsibility/ It will just undermine WPUk, which considering the immense effort of SO MANY women to do something so great, is a betrayal of those women that wont be undone by trying to get me to doubt what we all saw to manage shame that is appropriate.