Am I right to cross out "gender" on my child's school form and change it to "sex?"

[PerverseConverse]

I have a form for my child's new school which asks me my child's gender. I feel it should say "sex" seeing as gender is a social construct. Would I be wrong to cross out gender and write sex?

Oh gosh, I didn't expect so many replies!

My 11 year old daughter doesn't have a gender. She loves cats, her favourite colour is currently teal or purple, she plays football, climbs trees, gets grubby, paints her nails, wears make up sometimes, has long hair, is interested in and good at science especially physics and chemistry, loves and is good at maths, loves baking, is very artistic, loves reading. My point being that she doesn't conform to gender stereotypes. She thinks all this gender stuff is batshit. My other current thread is about her refusing to use the unisex toilets at school.

I've also got a form for my 3 year old for nursery which asks for his gender. Both forms have a blank box next to them. He's no idea what gender is. He loves pink sparkly things, loves anything involving engines and mechanics, loves baking, books, balls, getting grubby, likes his nails painted by his big sisters and requests lip gloss if they have some. I'm not sure how gender affects his nursery education in any way.

I have crossed out gender and written sex on both forms. I'm happy to be that parent.

Are you saying legally you believe a child who identifies as female but was born Male should not be permitted to use th female facilities? And you feel that's what the act is saying?

Yes. Schools MUST provide single sex changing and toilets, it’s the law. A male child belongs in the male toilets/changing OR in a separate, sensitively arranged unisex facility. A Male should not be using the female facilities.

Humans cannot change sex. The child is Male.

What about intersex children?

All intersex people are either Male or female. Intersex conditions, of which there are many, do not result in some kind of middle ground - everyone with any of the intersex conditions is either Male or female. Again in a school, children legally should use the changing provision of their sex.

If a child (any child) has a specific reason for botbwoshing to change communally (scars, birthmarks, bodily differences etc) then the school should look sensitively at providing a safe third space for them.

Intersex conditions also have zero bearing on the trans debate. None at all.

Not read all the thread adn assume that bluntness has had the bollocking they deserve

This is gold though

" identifying as female and to be treated as such."

Presumably no maths or science, dance instead of PE, sitting quietly in the corner while the others run around, and occasionally being sexually assaulted by other students.
YAY!!!!!!!!!!

Relevent threads:
Dr Meg-John Barker
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350668-The-British-Association-for-Counselling-and-Psychotherapy-have-come-up-with-Definition-of-woman
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3356199-New-OU-Course-on-gender-identity

Edward Lord
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3352843-First-there-was-Jess-Bradley-then-the-Challenors-now-Edward-Lord
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323475-Surprise-The-Masons-now-welcome-Transwomen-but-not-women
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3317922-City-of-London-Corporation-consultation-is-out-this-covers-Hampstead-Ponds
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3316098-Childrens-Convenor-Elected-Councillor-calls-women-cunts-on-Twitter-rants

I just noticed in the MNs settings it also asks for your child's gender - has this been brought up before?

" identifying as female and to be treated as such."

Presumably no maths or science, dance instead of PE, sitting quietly in the corner while the others run around, and occasionally being sexually assaulted by other students.. Spot on!

OP if there’s a blank box for gender you could just write ‘none’ or ‘not decided yet’ just to point out the bollocks that it is!

Report your post and ask. Or maybe someone should start a Site Stuff thread... not me, I've got nowhere with it so far.

Both forms have a blank box next to them. ...I have crossed out gender and written sex on both forms. I'm happy to be that parent.
You could just put a question mark - then they'll have to phone you up to clarify. Then you can ask them why they didn't ask for sex if that is what they wanted.

I went online the other day to register to apply for secondary schools for my son and was delighted they asked for my sex and my son's sex. Actually had sex not gender on a form. First one for ages.

Online forms which ask for gender and then offer the two sexes as options I tend to just toss a coin - heads is female and tails is male.

I registered as male using this coin turn for my GP about 6 months ago and yet somehow they manage to realise I'm female because they sent me a smear test invitation! Just goes to show that your gender identity doesn't actually mean anything.

If asking for Sex they can give two options and this covers the entire human population (including people with intersex conditions) ask for Gender and they need at least four - masculine, feminine, none and other (with a text field to explain).

@r0wantrees BISH is "proudly sponsored by Durex"

I wonder if they realise their brand is being associated with a webcontent telling children that people called 'he' are rational, tough and active and people called 'she' are soft, sharing and sensitive!

I always adjust gender to sex on forms (if they put gender where they mean sex) including at my kids school. It needs challenging every time. Well done you!

"Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured."

How on earth does this fit with Durex? Condoms - the shape of them, the instructions, ALL refer to an erect male penis and cater to an average size range of what 5-7 inches or something. (May vary if you ask a man who uses them to 7 - 9 ).

There is NO ability to wear a condom over an erect clitoris - which is exactly the same as an erect penis apart from size, and most people fall somewhere in the middle .... So actually, most people have a 2,5 inch penis? In which case Durex are useless as they fit precisely no-one.

Our genitals are not on a spectrum re the primary purpose of Durex, which is to stop male gametes and female gametes from meeting.

When they say "vagina size varies" do they mean there is a different orifice that might be referred to as a vagina, or do they mean actual vaginas vary in size a lot >>

Which doesn't actually make sense, vaginas are highly flexible, very muscular, lots of "stretch", and "capacity" if you like changes depending on circs.

A DD first starting her periods might struggle with a mini tampn and 10 years later she can get a baby out through the same passage.

The idea of "vagina size" as something that is more or less fixed person to person is extremely dodgy:

• Ties into misognyistic men's talk and ideas about tightness etc
• Is (probably) just a tag on because they talked about penis size. So the male organ gets text about it that is appropriate, and then it's Oh vaginas yeah bung them on the end and just say they vary too, dont' worry about thinking what this means, whetehr it's true etc etc

Fuck me. The poster that spouts shite on a variety of issues really excelled themselves on this thread!

Candidpeel
Justin Hancock seems to be involved with a lot of schools' PSHCE etc either directly providing workshops or creating resources
bishtraining.com/

From the site aimed at 14+ the podcast (linked below) with Meg-John Barker says Bish is one of the most influential sites for young people on sex, gender and relationships in the world:
'Who do you follow on social media
Written by Justin Hancock on July 9, 2018. Posted in Your Call

So you know how there are people who are famous on social media, like: Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, MySpace, Bebo, etc? Well, a lot of these people are famous in talking about sex, relationships, sexuality, gender, which is obviously what we’re all about here at BISH.

The reason I’m thinking about this now is that the other night I was at a party at Instagram HQ in London :nails emoji: I was there because me and my mate Meg-John were interviewing some of these folk for our podcast (which is not usually for young people, but you might like this one ).

So I thought that I’d write a blog post about them and also ask you, dear reader, for which social media people (also known as influencers) you follow. Here are the people I met last week, who are really cool.

So I met Sade Giliberti, who is a South African TV presenter and works to raise awareness of LGBTQ issues: www.instagram.com/onesadie/ She was saying to us that she gets lots of young people contacting her and asking for advice.

Also there was Hannah Winterbourne – In 2013, Hannah came out as a transgender woman and became the highest ranking transgender soldier within the British Army. www.instagram.com/hannahw253/

And lastly there was Jessica Kellgren Fozard a disabled, gay YouTuber who writes about life with wife Claudia: www.instagram.com/jessicaoutofthecloset/

Not on the panel, but someone I think is cool is Hannah Witton. She is sex educator on YouTube and made this excellent on sex worker rights, this one about what she (and her fans) wish they learnt about sexual health and this one where she gives BISH a big shout out 🙂
www.bishuk.com/your-call/who-do-you-follow/

I am going to start a new thread about this @R0wantrees @NothingontheTellyAgain

I was there because me and my mate Meg-John were interviewing some of these folk for our podcast (which is not usually for young people, but you might like this one

Because no child or teenager is going to be curious about what podcasts are intended for adults?

Justin Hancock is recommending his 'mate' Dr Meg-John Barker who specialises on BDSM etc

Thanks Candid apologies for the derail of this one.

I'd change it. Already have done.

Loving the TRA running int' thread, saying "Gender is the only thing that matters" and when people say "No. It isn't." running out again complaining that it's been made into a Trans thread with added 'horrific abuse'.

Which gender does 'Self-defeating hyperbole' fit into best?

The annoying thing is that the clerical person in the school whose job is to transcribe the data into the student database will probably have the same 'Gender' field on the screen. So the amendment on the form will not be recorded. But we should all still make the point.

ErrolTheDragon - I've just had to check the Welsh sex/gender thing as I wasn't entirely sure. They both translate to 'rhyw' - with gender also being translated to 'rhywedd'. Both sex as in M/F and 'having sex' use the same word - 'rhyw'.

link to thread started:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3357713-BISH-proudly-supported-by

Our genitals are on a spectrum in terms of: how much erectile tissue sticks out (clitorises and dicks and inbetween); where the prostate is; where the wee hole is; whether the gonads are inside or outside; vagina size. Many people are in the middle of this spectrum with how their bodies are configured

😂 What the actual fuck. Now I truly have heard it all. There is no limit to the delusion.

Thanks mejon. Wonder what pertains in other languages?