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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I right to cross out "gender" on my child's school form and change it to "sex?"

203 replies

PerverseConverse · 06/09/2018 10:20

I have a form for my child's new school which asks me my child's gender. I feel it should say "sex" seeing as gender is a social construct. Would I be wrong to cross out gender and write sex?

OP posts:
drspouse · 07/09/2018 10:49

@Bluntness100
Intersex people are men or women with an intersex condition. Not some mythical third sex.
So parents of a child with an intersex condition will tick "male" or "female" and then under special information will note the child's condition (if known, some don't emerge till puberty".

drspouse · 07/09/2018 10:50

(I changed the vaccination service form today. The NHS FGS. They don't need to know if my DD wears trousers, they need to know her sex).

cloudtree · 07/09/2018 10:51

I change it back every time and advise clients to change their forms frequently (I'm a lawyer). To be fair, in years gone by the vast majority of clients just thought it was more polite to use the word "gender" instead of the word "sex". They were not intentionally making a statement about the two being different (because until recently they weren't commonly used that way)

Oceanbliss · 07/09/2018 11:02

R0wantrees that's very interesting. I didn't know that. Thx for the link I'll check it out.

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 07/09/2018 11:06

I am out, I just happened to look at my I'm on page and saw the ops post so responded,, I've genuinely not read anything else

Maybe this is the problem Bluntness - try reading some of it, you might learn something!

MyRelationshipIsWeird · 07/09/2018 11:09

It asked for my gender, but I thought that, in the event that my waterlogged body was dredged out of the weed, my position on whether or not I felt girly or otherwise was probably largely irrelevant. So I crossed it out and wrote 'SEX!' instead. Glom they will have needed to know whether to use a pink or blue body bag.

Noqont · 07/09/2018 11:11

I changed the vaccination one today as well. I'm sure the NHS are more interested in DC's biological sex then whether she feels more feminine or masculine.

Amy1996 · 07/09/2018 11:13

I think it's pathetic gender means boy or girl and you can only be one. Why are people so petty now a days.

LinoleumBlownapart · 07/09/2018 11:24

I am out, I just happened to look at my I'm on page and saw the ops post so responded,, I've genuinely not read anything else.

Closing your eyes doesn't make the truth go away. Maybe you should read what people have said, it will be an eye opener.

R0wantrees · 07/09/2018 11:25

To be fair, in years gone by the vast majority of clients just thought it was more polite to use the word "gender" instead of the word "sex"

So is what will happen that any 'gender' drop down box which says male / female (for reasons above) will initally be expanded to have three options: male/female/non-binary?

Presumably there will then be calls to expand the gender options further (see the FB list for 50+ examples)
Stephen Whittle 2014:

"Gender identities are complex and for many people, describing themselves as just a man or just a woman has always been inadequate," said Professor Stephen Whittle, vice-president at Press for Change. The European Court of Human Rights has upheld the right to develop our gender identity, as key to our personal autonomy.

"By challenging the gender binary, Facebook will finally allow thousands of people to describe themselves as they are now and it will allow future generation of kids to become truly comfortable in their own skins."

Rebecca Reilly Cooper comments,
(extract)
"Once we assert that the problem with gender is that we currently recognise only two of them, the obvious question to ask is: how many genders would we have to recognise in order not to be oppressive? Just how many possible gender identities are there?

The only consistent answer to this is: 7 billion, give or take. There are as many possible gender identities as there are humans on the planet. According to Nonbinary.org, one of the main internet reference sites for information about non-binary genders, your gender can be frost or the Sun or music or the sea or Jupiter or pure darkness. Your gender can be pizza.

But if this is so, it’s not clear how it makes sense or adds anything to our understanding to call any of this stuff ‘gender’, as opposed to just ‘human personality’ or ‘stuff I like’. The word gender is not just a fancy word for your personality or your tastes or preferences. It is not just a label to adopt so that you now have a unique way to describe just how large and multitudinous and interesting you are. Gender is the value system that ties desirable (and sometimes undesirable?) behaviours and characteristics to reproductive function. Once we’ve decoupled those behaviours and characteristics from reproductive function – which we should – and once we’ve rejected the idea that there are just two types of personality and that one is superior to the other – which we should – what can it possibly mean to continue to call this stuff ‘gender’? What meaning does the word ‘gender’ have here, that the word ‘personality’ cannot capture?"
aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

PerverseConverse · 07/09/2018 11:41

If I randomly pick one of the more obscure genders from that list how will it affect my child's education? It won't will it as does anyone actually know what all these genders mean? It's pointless.

OP posts:
Vickyyyy · 07/09/2018 12:18

I do this on all forms now. Internet forms stress me a bit though as obviously I can't change them.

Vickyyyy · 07/09/2018 12:21

It's irrelevant how common it is. As long as the school has gender th y always have the right answer.

But my children do not have a gender at all. How do I fill it out'? They do not 'identify' as either sex, but one is male and one is female. They both like a mix of stereotypes for either sex. So I guess under 'gender' it would be 'none' which is never an option. Also there is no reason for a school to ask about stereotypes anyway, so they clearly mean sex..but are using incorrect terminology.

Vickyyyy · 07/09/2018 12:47

(I changed the vaccination service form today. The NHS FGS. They don't need to know if my DD wears trousers, they need to know her sex).

Yeah you would think the NHS of all places would know that sex is whats relevant, not 'gender'. Given different medications affect females and males differently and different treatments can be required based on sex.

R0wantrees · 07/09/2018 13:00

relevent threads about gender identities:

BACP Best Practice (for counsellors):
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3339137-BACP-Gender-Sexual-and-Relationship-Diversity-by-Dr-Meg-John-Barker

'Bish' (for 14+ years & provide school resources)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3357713-BISH-proudly-supported-by

Facebook is intended for 14 years+ I believe?
So children at secondary school may well now or in the near future be identifying as a gender other than male/female/non-binary

Sex is a key data indicator, education policies have taken pupils' performance into account based on this.

TooMuchPenis · 07/09/2018 13:06

If a child born Male identifies as female, the school should know that and treat them as female.

@bluntness100

How does a school treat a child as female which is a sex category?

Give a boy a tampon?

or do they just only give him pink crayons and take him out maths classes? Which is gendered stereotyping?

If my children's school was in anyway treating children according to their gender

TooMuchPenis · 07/09/2018 13:08

I do think the risk in changing the category to read sex is that most normal people who haven't been wading through queer politics will assume you actually mean your child is transgender even though they have incorrectly used gender to start off with.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 07/09/2018 13:08

Holy fuck, Bluntness Hmm. I’ve always respects you as a poster...
This, though? Holy fuck Hmm
Please say you did it, op?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 07/09/2018 13:10

Whst’s that, TooMuchPenis? Op will confuse the issue by correcting it to sex, because people are no longer sure of exactly what that means??! Shock

PerverseConverse · 07/09/2018 13:15

Yes, I changed my daughter's form.
I'm debating which gender to use for my 3 year old son. I might make up a new one Grin or I might question school as to what they mean. I can just imagine the nice respectable catholic response of horror when I do.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 07/09/2018 13:16

I'm pretty sure the majority of parents know exactly what 'sex' means, and have practical experience of the reality of sexual dimorphism.

Noqont · 07/09/2018 13:20

I do think the risk in changing the category to read sex is that most normal people who haven't been wading through queer politics will assume you actually mean your child is transgender even though they have incorrectly used gender to start off with.

No. I don't think most normal people would think this at all.

speakingwoman · 07/09/2018 13:44

YANBU

TooMuchPenis · 07/09/2018 13:54

Whst’s that, TooMuchPenis? Op will confuse the issue by correcting it to sex, because people are no longer sure of exactly what that means??!

Do pop down to the baby boards and compare how many people say "sex" scan to "gender" scan.

I'm pretty sure the majority of parents know exactly what 'sex' means, and have practical experience of the reality of sexual dimorphism.

I am aware of that but I'm pretty sure most people think sex and gender is completely interchangeable. So therein lies the confusion.

We've not moved post genital and sex isn't real and penises a construct (or something) but I think people not having a full understanding of the situation will likely think you are trying to be a SJW and get confused.

TooMuchPenis · 07/09/2018 13:54

*we've now moved

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