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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daily Mail RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: I've always admired Linda Bellos, and it's outrageous that she should be dragged to court for vowing to defend herself against violent trans activists

177 replies

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 31/08/2018 08:03

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6116899/LITTLEJOHN-outrageous-Linda-Bellos-dragged-court-violent-trans-activists.html

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EntropicTupperwareDrawer · 31/08/2018 13:52

I wouldn't have done it myself but I disagree with Bellos

On what do you disagree with Linda Bellos, 12th? Her work as a councillor? her left wing beliefs? her feminism? her lesbianism? her work with the police? That she should be able to say she may defend herself if attacked?

Because by your proposal on this thread, if you disagree with her about one thing, then you ought to disagree with her about everything. Your post above is only missing "and she deserves it".

SPOFS · 31/08/2018 14:00

The Daily Mail supports and understands women's rights more than the Guardian.

Caroline Lucas wrote a misogynistic article yesterday, and Richard Littlejohn wrote a pro-women article today.

I would never have backed this horse!

12thGuelph · 31/08/2018 14:29

I disagree with the trans-exclusionary radical feminist position.

Because by your proposal on this thread, if you disagree with her about one thing, then you ought to disagree with her about everything.

Where did I say anything of the sort? I'm saying I still haven't seen anything to like about Littlejohn, including what I think is his exploiting this story. "You're either with us or against us" is usually aggressive idiocy and in rushing, yet again, to make assumptions about my views because I disagree with you, you're getting quite close to it.

ToeToToe · 31/08/2018 14:42

SPOF - I know!

Who'd have ever bet on that?

Daily Mail a better friend to women and lesbians than the Guardian.

I always knew there was some underlying misogyny in the underbelly of far-left politics, but always kind of ignored it, being a lefty myself.

I never expected to have it proven to me so spectacularly in 2018.

VickyEadie · 31/08/2018 14:42

I disagree with the trans-exclusionary radical feminist position.

Does that mean she doesn't have the right to say she'll defend herself from attack and deserves to be taken to court, in your opinion?

movinonup · 31/08/2018 14:47

I just agreed with a piece by Richard Littlejohn, I feel very weird about this.

EntropicTupperwareDrawer · 31/08/2018 14:47

yet again? I’ve never seen you before this thread and I remain unenlightened as to what your actual views are, other than that you think we’re horrid.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 31/08/2018 14:47

Its all too easy to disagree and throw stones and much harder to come up with an alternative position and make a stand for that.

I support Littlejohn for speaking the truth - it's in such short supply in these days of astroturfing, socks, trolls and bots inciting faux facts and mob rule, all to cover up the vested interests that lie at the heart of the TG movement.

Datun · 31/08/2018 14:48

Perhaps Littlejohn is mellowing in his old age and getting more palatable.

littlbrowndog · 31/08/2018 14:51

Like an old piece of cheese 🧀

TiredPony · 31/08/2018 14:51

I wonder if he will face any backlash - being a man and all.

My thoughts exactly.

Needmoresleep · 31/08/2018 15:07

The common issue is free speech. Hearing other views helps us refine our own, amd hopefully reach concensus.

Calling people tabloid scum gets us nowhere.

I once agreed with a Katie Hopkins article about dementia and was impressed with her description of her brain surgery. But choose not to read most of what she writes. Does not mean she, like Littlejohn, should be prevented from having a view. Both have scope to say the unsayable (like holding a gc view) because they cant really damage their existing reputations.

I think the Taliban analogy is clever. The Taliban no more represent Muslims that TRAs represent people with gender dysmorphia. In contrast Jan Morris is cool. I remember reading her book about her sex change serialised in, I think, The Times when I was a teenager and feeling very symathetic. It is a moving memoir. Her travel books, which I read later, were good too. Rather her as a figurehead than AC.

Needmoresleep · 31/08/2018 15:10

Developing this, it is strange that the TRA movement do not acknowledge or celebrate Jan Morris. She was a true pioneer.

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 31/08/2018 15:17

It looks very much to me that 12th disagrees with a woman who would defend herself if attacked.

Now, what sort of a person would not want a woman to defend herself if attacked?

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 15:23

I read a lot of Jan Morris' travel writings as a teenager. Those she wrote as James and those she wrote as Jan.
I share Littlejohn's admiration for her work and fascinating life.

Jan Morris' understanding of who they are and the nature of their personal experience have always been described with nuance as can be read in this contemporaneous writing by close friend and journalist David Holden:

archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/11/23/home/morris-interview.html?mcubz=1

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 15:24

sorry, I clipped the link!
archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/11/23/home/morris-interview.html?mcubz=1

happydappy2 · 31/08/2018 15:30

needmoresleep I believe the TRAs would label Jan truscum, as she doesn’t claim to be a woman, she accepts she is a bit of both man and woman.

She has gained a lot of respect though as has enjoyed success as a writer-she sounds terrifically interesting.

nauticant · 31/08/2018 15:47

I imagine TRAs would prefer history to forget people like Jan Morris. A bit like this:

www.bbc.com/culture/story/20171110-the-early-soviet-images-that-foreshadowed-fake-news

Needmoresleep · 31/08/2018 15:49

Happy, I sort of assumed that. Smile

An articulate and thoughtful "pioneer" who undertook a difficult personal and physical journey may be admired by Rowan, Littlejohn and I, but not by people who claim to follow in her footsteps.

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 15:52

To be clear, I admire Jan Morris' travel writings and find her life as a journalist fascinating.

I'm an English Lit graduate so there is nuance and limitation to the scope of my admiration!

Needmoresleep · 31/08/2018 16:05

Sorry. Not an Eng Lit graduate, so perhaps not good with nuances.

Though I remember her autobiography clearly, as an alternative testimony very different to the dull Surrey suburbia I grew up in.

hackmum · 31/08/2018 16:05

That article is so good that it's hard to believe it was written by Richard Littlejohn.

I have to admit that, while I enjoyed Conundrum, I'm really not a fan of Morris's travel writing. But Conundrum is worth a read. And is a million miles away from modern transactivism.

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 16:09

I also suspect that Morris' prose style which appealed to me as a teenager, may be less to my taste now. Its been a long time since I read the books!

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 16:12

Apologies NeedMoreSleep as I think I worded that clumsily! I meant that I relate to books and authors in a particular way, likely influenced by the degree. Not claiming anything more.