Daily Mail RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: I've always admired Linda Bellos, and it's outrageous that she should be dragged to court for vowing to defend herself against violent trans activists

[Stickerladiesoftheworldunite]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6116899/LITTLEJOHN-outrageous-Linda-Bellos-dragged-court-violent-trans-activists.html

Maybe the penny will finally drop with the TRA types that they have gotten it wrong, With so many unlikely people who have normally polarised viewpoints uniting on this topic, surely the rational part will scream at them to stop and reconsider things, By all means believe what you believe, but don't expect others to yield because you shout them down or try and criminalise them for not agreeing with your view on biology ans the reality of being Trans.

I was hoping you were all mistaken but it's quite good. Love the ending.

12th...are you a NC or new to MN?

Hopefully you are pleased the word is spreading about this cult?

Trans Taliban is perfect...all they want is to control women.

12th is very pro-trans, but was misrepresented by TRAs as a racist. And seemingly didn't care about that too much, IIRC.

Thanks for this. I’ve just commented on their FB Page.
I really do feel like we can have one: womens’ rights, but not the other, trans rights when I start reading up on these things and I really don’t want that to be true. I’m having difficulty articulating an argument to that as I’m all for equal rights, but as a feminist and someone with a trans friend of many years, I see how we can have both.
Do we say that self ID is a separate issue to sex? I just don’t know.

What's your point @12thGuelph**

I don't think he's always admired Linda Bellos.

OK - I wondered that too 12th and I didn't know you were a regular poster.

I thought you were trying to discredit the points raised in the current article.

By pointing to the author, who most of us already know of. May not usually agree but this time he's spot on.

I don't think he's always admired Linda Bellos.

He didn't say he had always admired Linda Bellos. He said

'I’ve always admired her conviction, passion, honesty and willingness to speak her mind, regardless of what the hell anyone else thinks.' You can think that about someone you don't like nor admire. I often think it about Jacob Rees Mogg.

See, this is what the grown ups do. They realise that they don't always agree on stuff, the understand that not everyone shares their point of view and that's ok. They put across their point of view, they back it up with articulate arguments and when someone counters that, they come back with further arguments, or they may even change their mind. That's what grown up debate is.

What grown ups don't do is try and silence anyone who doesn't agree with them, scream 'BIGOT' at them until they shut up or stick their fingers in their ears to any view that disagrees with their own because having to listen to anyone with a different point of view to theirs is so hurtful.

Like others, I can't cope with the cognitive dissonance of agreeing with a Littlejohn piece. However, I'm taking it that we agree on freedom of speech rather than FWR.

Remember those fairly-recent "Do you ever think you might be wrong/on the wrong side of history" threads? Even now, with partial allies I loathe, I realise that the issues of freedom of speech affect swathes of people who are not natural allies.

That's why I've been so surprised that all the male figures who were so much at the forefront of libel reform back in 2012 have not been picking up this issue.

Bloody hell that's a very very clever article. I hope Richard Littlejohn makes a series out of it.

That was a clever article. Goodness me that I should be praising Littlejohn. The world's gorn mad

What is it that Michael 'calm down dear' Winner was actually referring to? What did Littlejohn say that was so offensive.

I believe he ridiculed the idea of lesbians becoming parents, with a test tube and a yoghurt carton.

In their warped universe, anyone who so much as wonders out loud whether someone in possession of a full set of wedding tackle should be allowed to call himself a woman is a heretic who must be silenced for ever.

You know that conspiracy theory that we are actually all in a matrix-style simulation and the nutty things that are happening (Brexit, Trump etc) is because the creators got bored and are messing with us? The recent daily mail articles may be final proof: a good piece from Laura Bates yesterday and now Littlejohn is masquerading as an intelligent human...

Of course, Dacre has finally gone. Maybe the rest were fair-minded centrists all the time but were scared of one of the 'great' man's legendary c word tirades.

And yet, this loudmouth Daily Mail columnist with sexist views is able to stick his neck out to defend Linda Bellos.
Whereas her "personal friend" Jeremy Corbyn has said absolutely fuck all.
That is what speaks volumes.

Loudmouth Daily Mail columnist can see the issues with transgender ideology - whereas many other journalists, and MPs cannot. Or maybe they can, and are just too scared to say. Yet.

This whole thing will come tumbling down like a pack of cards at some point - I just hope it's sooner rather than later - so that actual harm to campaigners like Linda Bellos, to pre-pubescent/pubescent children, who are being put on Lupron at an alarming rate, and having child protection measures decimated, is limited.

Yes caraceral: the problem is that there is a simplistic assumption that the left wing holds the moral high ground - it doesn't always. Sometimes right wingers get to the nub of an issue more clearly.

I'm a centrist - bit right of centre economically, bit left of centre socially so I don't have any skin in the political game.

It's like Rod Liddle defending Julie Bindel. Ideologically miles apart but he acknowledges her bravery and decency and principles. Old school grownups basically.

He didn't say he had always admired Linda Bellos.

The headline writers certainly did. And I wouldn't call criticising progressive politics in the Mail "sticking his neck out".

12th is very pro-trans, but was misrepresented by TRAs as a racist. And seemingly didn't care about that too much, IIRC.

I just disagree with you.

@Stickerladiesoftheworldunite I'm a NC. I enjoy poking at cults.

Out now.

We've lost the ability to agree with people on some things, and disagree with them on others.

This "you're either with us or against us" mentality is very damaging, and is a threat to critical thought, to actually weighing up arguments on their own merits.

I'm not going down the road of "Owen Jones says it, and I'm a lefty, so it must be right - and - Richard Littlejohn writes for the DM, and I'm a lefty, so he must be wrong." It's totalitarianism.

People need to engage their fucking brains on this.

Another fine Julie Bindel related example was her and Milo sparring at the Manchester debate. They cannot stand each other - but could still converse, even have a joke with each other. Jane Fae, also there to debate - sat at the end of the table knitting. Because that's what women do at univeristy debates.

I just disagree with you.

What, exactly are you disagreeing with?

Criticising Littlejohn for being homophobic. No one disagrees with that.

Nitpicking over a headline?

Is that it?

Really good article and I wholeheartedly agree ( hurt to type that)
“trans Taliban “ love it!

"I love Jeremy Corbyn, he's our Dear Leader, the saviour of the Labour Party - therefore, if he says it, it must be right."

"Jeremy Corbyn is a good principled man - therefore everything he does must be defended as good and principled."

Just NO. Very dangerous thinking.