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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sunlight not welcomed - trans advocates afraid

137 replies

Charliethefeminist · 29/08/2018 13:33

We have to acknowledge that we have largely achieved our successes by flying under the radar”, (then) Transgender Law Center Director Masen Davis stated eighteen months ago, “It is a secret at Transgender Law Center and I’ll ‘come out’ today. We do a lot, really quietly. We have made some of our biggest gains: that nobody has noticed

That's a quote from 2013.

Well now that women are noticing and collating, they are so afraid of the exposure that they cannot bear to see their work listed and described. In many ways, this is a good sign: of how their confidence and status is so deeply fragile, and they know it.

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15
VickyEadie · 29/08/2018 19:23

I think someone's popped over to tell the ladies to be nice again.

boatyardblues · 29/08/2018 19:28

picklemepopcorn If no-one else has posted it (I’m still on p2), this was the deletion message on the list thread.

Message from MNHQ: On balance we're not sure we'd be in favour of this sort of list compiling on Mumsnet were the shoe on the other foot, so we have deleted it.

GenderApostate · 29/08/2018 19:35

Another one of the Guardian writing cohort is sharing helpful information on suing for defamation - how does collating and disseminating publicly available information = defamation?
Interestingly, the thread went poof after they @-ted MN towers in their convo ( +several high profile trans activists).

boatyardblues · 29/08/2018 19:35

Don't they even know about mother's ruin? Sheltered lives, some people lead.

I think this was the kind of thing Jenni Murray got sin-binned for. If you haven’t got that lived female experience of day after relentless day of a toddler hanging off your leg and a baby hanging off your boob whilst you try to turn back a relentless tide of beeping-honking toys and keep some semblance of order in your home in a sleep-deprived haze, you will never understand the absolute necessity of gin. 🤷‍♂️

picklemepopcorn · 29/08/2018 19:37

Thank you boat. I do actually see what they mean, though I wish it had stayed up long enough for me to read it all. I'm glad the info is being compiled elsewhere. I am so pleased vipers with minds like steel traps are all over this like a rash. Thank you.

MipMipMip · 29/08/2018 20:42

Haxxor I hope you writing your post offline means you still have a copy. I'd certainly be interested to see it.

We really need a website to collate this information.

ChattyLion · 29/08/2018 21:56

This has confused me:

Message from MNHQ: On balance we're not sure we'd be in favour of this sort of list compiling on Mumsnet were the shoe on the other foot, so we have deleted it

But anyone can compile a list of publicly available info. It’s publicly available!
It’s not secret stuff. No inside knowledge or outing or whatever. The TRAs have put their own views out publicly themselves.

Furthermore Gender critical women face threats of reprisals (rape, attack etc) for speaking out.
There hasn’t been a single threat of violence or rape against a TRA. Not one.

So there isn’t a plausible ‘shoe on the other foot’ scenario is there? - It’s not the same for gender critical women to have put together publicly available info as it would be if TRAs made an ‘equivalent’ list of gender critical women.
because gender critical women don’t seek to to threaten and silence TRAs. On the contrary, we have threads on FWR about how to get #nodebate types and their handmaidens to discuss and hear alternative views..

shinyshinynewname · 29/08/2018 22:27

I was part way through that TRA list when it got deleted Angry I was ticking off all the TRAs I was aware of and taking note of new names (new to me at least) to watch out for. The dots are getting joined up. I think this is very important for us to be aware of this tangled web of activists (& the influence they have) because it is starting to show how coordinated this attack on women's rights is.The speed at which it was deleted seems to confirm its importance.

AndYetItMoves · 29/08/2018 22:29

If anyone has a copy of the deleted thread I would appreciate a gander.

haXXor · 29/08/2018 23:06

"Them" and "us"

Yes, that is what this has turned into: people who want to destroy female-only spaces versus people who want to keep them.

"Tra's "agenda""

Which is to get rid of single sex spaces. Our agenda is to keep them. Both sides have an agenda, this is normal in any conflict.

A list of who is who in the tra world

All of which is collated from publically-available information. No one's addresses were published, nor phone numbers, nor email addresses. And none of us were going to do anything other than review it and look for patterns and links. We certain weren't going to:

  1. Publish names, addresses, email addresses, and Labour Party membership numbers in a Google Drive and then try to get those Labour members expelled from the party. Labour Against Women Transphobia did this.
  2. Contact employers to get anyone fired. Several TRAs have tried this.
  3. Cyber stalk people to find out what unrelated events they attend and threaten to picket them (e.g. a clothing swap organised by Venice Allan at which young children would be present).

Not accepting the suicide rate numbers

The one study, by Stonewall was poorly designed.

  1. The sample of people who filled it in were self-selecting, introducing selection bias.
  2. The presence or absence of comorbid mental illness, such as depression, was nor recorded and ao could not be controlled for. Comorbid depression is very common in trans teens, affecting 49% of transfeminine teens and 62% of transmasculine teens. Depression is a strong risk factor for suicide and we rightly worry that transition is mistaken for a "magic bullet" when the child needs comprehensive mental health care, a view shared by Tavistock clinicians but less popular with Mermaids.

Calling them "lady dicks"

This is worse than "girldick" how?

Using rape and abuse to illustrate the debate

I am not going to hunt for my earlier post, but basically a penis is a rape weapon and a vagina is an unpatchable security vulnerability. Avoiding rape committed by people who have rape weapons built into their bodies because we can get pregnant from that rape is actually pretty important to us, which is why we are so adamant about having female-only spaces. This has nothing to do with how valid your gender identity is and everything to do with how reproductive biology can be weaponised against female people by male people.

"A man cannot be a woman. Period"

When you show me the clinical evidence that a sperm producer can become an ova producer or vice-versa, I'll review that assertion that a man cannot be a woman.

OED and other dictionaries: woman (noun, countable): adult human female.

An adult human male cannot be an adult human female.

Using the stupid comments of a few dickheads to general

Those "few dickheads" would be allowed in our spaces under self-id and we regard them as a hazard to our safety. Many of those "few dickheads" are prominent trans activists and even hold office:

  • Jess "flasher" Bradley, elected NUS Trans Officer so yes, he does represent trans people, who has advised the Women and Equalities Select Committee.
  • Shon "enjoy your erasure" Faye.
  • Jane "violent porn" Fae.
  • Lily Madigan, who considers women's single-sex spaces to be transphobic despite being an elected Labour Women's Officer.
  • Aimee "new terfblocker" Challenor who hired her dad as an election agent whilst said dad was under police investigation for child torture and rape, and advised Green Party trans policy.
BraveAndStunning · 29/08/2018 23:26

This thread kinda notices

twitter.com/KATUNews/status/1034128654157008897

ToeToToe · 29/08/2018 23:33

"Transbusgirl" on Twitter has posted they are disappointed to not be named on our list of transactivists.

Sorry TransBusGirl - you just don't seem to qualify. You haven't been found guilty of raping little girls (and that's good!), you haven't been advising parliamentary committees, or political parties, and then been found to have been (allegedly) running a flasher's website a la Jess Bradley. You haven't hounded or harassed women online, got them expelled from political parties (again, a good thing). As far as I know, anyway. You haven't tweeted that you're having a shit, or wanking, in the women's toilets to get back at 'terfs' - like some transactivists have on twitter. What can I say? It's good that you don't qualify.

Btw - That episode of Dr Who is the episode starring Derek Jacobi. It is the set up to the 2-part finale of the series, and reveals Derek Jacobi is in fact The Master, but who had wiped his memory. It's called Utopia. Derek Jacobi then morphs into John Simm.

You asked on Twitter. Nobody answered you on twitter, so I thought I'd answer you here. I have a husband and sons (and a daughter) and we all love doctor who.

ToeToToe · 29/08/2018 23:38

Explains the Dr Who stuff

MN can delete it if they like.

haXXor · 29/08/2018 23:39

Another one of the Guardian writing cohort is sharing helpful information on suing for defamation - how does collating and disseminating publicly available information = defamation?

"The main defences to a defamation claim are:

  • truth/justification - if the statement is true, it will not be considered defamatory, no matter how damaging it is "

Everything I said on that thread was sourced and true, apart from asking whether the Scouts were asleep re David Challenor, which is "honest opinion". And yes, I kept a copy.

NotBadConsidering · 29/08/2018 23:42

From that twitter thread:

Excuse me, but can I get your preferred pronoun for the 911 call?

Grin
BraveAndStunning · 29/08/2018 23:46

And.... there we have it. WTF have women been banging on about for years, all in one thread

twitter.com/Glinner/status/1034909470672007168

ToeToToe · 29/08/2018 23:49

That thread is unbelievable levels of crazy. How the hell did we get here?

LadyLauraOver · 29/08/2018 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RetroTardigrade · 30/08/2018 00:17

Thank fuck for all you sparkling brilliant women. Delurking once more to say thank you all for the work you're doing exposing this outrageous conspiracy against women and children.

I come up for air every few months from the swamp of baby-and toddler-care to see you're all still at it, making these connections and setting out the reasoned arguments that are going to help keep my children safe as they grow up.

Gin all around, and Flowers

ChattyLion · 30/08/2018 08:54

Haxxor great post.
Retro great post.
I just lost a long post but essentially wanted to echo the gratitude and urgency Retro expressed. Public services, health, education and academia are too far down the rabbit hole- this is down to individuals now to create space for debate. The good news is when we can do that, the vast majority of people agree with the position that would protect women and children. We need to make sure the debate is heard and to raise awareness of the GRA consultation before it’s too late and this clash of rights is legally resolved against the interest of women and children.

loveyouradvice · 30/08/2018 11:00

Is there any way we can have another go at reposting that thread - in a way that Mumsnet won't take down???

Charliethefeminist · 30/08/2018 11:08

I sort of tried but it was taken down. It was the same but called 'housecleaning'. It was a bit silly really, MN aren't dumb.

One problem is that though for example the info about Jane 'violent porn defender' fae is in the public domain, posting their former name and pic just gives the impression of being iffy. Even though that's what we actually need.

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Charliethefeminist · 30/08/2018 11:10

I learned on here about John ozimek. I just learned on that thread about the Royal z Kaverney porn campaign. Its such valuable information. Amelia womack, Gina the copper, I had no idea. I screenshot lots of it.

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Charliethefeminist · 30/08/2018 11:11

Roz not royalHmm

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ToeToToe · 30/08/2018 11:18

There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes that they absolutely do not want a light shone on.

That's why they all started shouting so loud over that thread.

Perhaps we could categorise it:

Eg - the extreme porn stuff.

-TELI & Jess Bradley

-David Challenor/Aimee CHallenor and their influence on the Green Party.

etc

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