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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Aimee Challenor's resignation

208 replies

TriptychTwins · 26/08/2018 21:28

Apparently Aimee's resigned. Unfortunately the link isn't working so I can't post it here, but I have it on good authority that it's genuine.

Let's hope so.

OP posts:
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11
R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 10:59

Re Aimee Challenor's influence:

July 4th 2018 Huffpost interview,
"These 9 People's Stories Of Equality Show Birmingham At Its Best"

"Aimee Challenor, a 20-year-old trans woman who is the equalities spokesperson for the Green Party, described her battle to succeed despite her diagnosis with Oppositional Defiance Disorder, which manifests as defiant or hostile behaviour towards adults as a child.

“I was often seen as a troublemaker and whatnot, questioning authority. But now I’m doing politics I’m turning this negative thing, where people have said it will get in my way and I won’t be able to do things and achieve, into a positive.

“I’m using it in my politics as a tool to hold people to account.”
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/huffpost-listens-equality_uk_5b3c7829e4b09e4a8b28a0d9

Has this been considered?

bitheby · 31/08/2018 11:21

That just brings up a whole host of other issues whereby someone gets a mental health label when they're living in a dysfunctional and possibly abusive family and haven't a) had good behavioural role models and b) are acting out against their poor care/ emotional neglect.

This just makes me feel more sorry for her really.

And I wonder why these VERY vulnerable young trans women are being thrust forward into high profile political roles? Who is pulling the strings?

R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 12:24

bitheby It is really complex and requires nuance, sensitivity and respect. It should though be considered.... carefully.

BraveAndStunning · 31/08/2018 16:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

sociopathsunited · 31/08/2018 16:28

What a bloody mess this whole thing is. Just as Caroline posts her flimflammery, someone finally decides to draw a line and park Aimee on the sidelines whilst they decide how to best hide their fuck up. I predict Caroline Lucas will be burnt at the metaphorical stake, seeing as she's leaving anyway and she's already volunteered to be the sacrifice, Aimee will be shipped quietly off to Siberia on a permanent basis and the Green Party will desperately try to pretend that none of it ever happened.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 31/08/2018 16:33

Blimey.

Didn't think that was going to happen!

Bienchen · 31/08/2018 16:34

twitter.com/GreenPartyAimee

page does not exist anymore, so have the GP taken back control or did AC delete on her own account, clear as mud as usual

thecatfromjapan · 31/08/2018 16:39

The Green Party used, boosted and amplified Aimee fo an agenda. Oversight was disregarded. Now it looks as though she and Caroline Lucas are smokescreen/sacrifice to hide multiple structural failures in the Party.

It's irresponsible and cynical.

I'm still disgusted with the Green Party.

BraveAndStunning · 31/08/2018 16:49

No Aimee has just renamed the @ to @AimeeChallenor

Still has the Green details though

Aimee Challenor's resignation
R0wantrees · 31/08/2018 16:50

I think Stonewall have a great number of questions to answer.

In many ways they have propelled Aimee Challenor to the forefront of TR politics and if any organisation should be aware of potential vulnerabilities of people who are transgender it should be them.

Pink News also.

Melamin · 31/08/2018 16:51

A week late. Slow start even if they did not know what was going on.

Oversight? Confused

Melamin · 31/08/2018 16:57

Really, this should have happened as soon as the outcome of the trial was known (if not before) to protect Aimee.

RedToothBrush · 31/08/2018 17:35

Now it looks as though she and Caroline Lucas are smokescreen/sacrifice to hide multiple structural failures in the Party.

I think we need to be careful here. The Green are rightly getting the shit they deserve for their appalling handling of this

BUT

If anyone doesn't thing the other major parties don't each have their own structural weaknesses which are vulnerable to a similar situation happening they are being naive.

I think if someone wanted to do similar in another party it would be easier than you might think to do.

I think the LDs are particularly vulnerable because in some areas lack membership numbers and their federalised system where we are already aware that the LGBT twitter account is a loose cannon that we are led to believe the central party has no control over. I stress here the threat is not a trans one, but one relating to cliques who run various branches of the LDs without oversight.

And Labour, with the faction war, influence of momentum and their own woke lobby, its easy to see it happening there too. If Jared O'Mara can bypass vetting then someone else can too.

As for the Conservatives. They are less likely to have an issue relating to trans people, but they have issues with cliques and low membership numbers too and they have let rogue candidates through the net in the past.

I am under no illusions that the Green Party have just been caught with their pants around their ankles first, with a person presenting a massive safeguarding issue flying under their radar.

seafret · 31/08/2018 19:18

Rowan thanks for those links. You are a Star

I did post re Aimee's ODD the other day. I will past it here as not sure if it is possible to link to a precise post. It didn't really get much comment then - maybe due to being a fast moving and upsetting time, or people not finding it relevant.

Post 1 seafret Tue 28-Aug-18 14:35:47
I've just visited Aimee's wiki page. And seen that they were diagnosed with Oppostional Defiance Disorder as a child (Aimee disclosed this diagnosis themselves to the Huff Post)

Now, I am sure there will be MNers with expertise in this area, but according to Wikipedia, sympoms of this disorder include;
(1) Often loses temper
(2) Is often touchy or easily annoyed
(3) Is often angry and resentful
(4) Often argues with authority figures or for children and adolescents, with adults
(5) Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules^
(6) Often deliberately annoys others
(7) Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
(8) Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months

I can't help noticing that their behaviour over the last few years seems to be very symtomatic of this disorder - especially if you place women/feminists as authority figures where women are the gatekeepers of femaleness and women's rights and therefore so mean and nasty to keep Aimee out

How does this affect how we view Aimee's actions with cyber bullying/hacking allegations, terfblockers, aggressively silencing women and other Greens if we fight to keep the boundaries (rules) of common sense and science and do not accept their assertion that TWAW because she and they say so.

And Aimee's utter lack of humility over their latest behaviour just has me speechless. Do they have no shame? Yes it smacks a little of 'young people' and being unwise, but a a PP said the Green Party should be older and wiser and should advise Aimee and have the strength and wisdom to law down the law here. And if Aimee is so unwise then why does anyone support them as a candidate for leading anything?

Has Aimee 'overcome' this disorder that leads to lack of behavoural control, vindictiveness, rule breaking, hostility, failure to take repsonsibility? What treatment if any did they have?

I acknowledge that Aimee grew up in very disturbed household, but disorder or not, disability or not, to me it adds to more weight to the argument that Aimee is wholly unfit to be a polictian or official activist, and that the Green Party show staggering naivety and/stupidity (or worse) are utterly incapable of recognising vunerabiltities in young people, exercising good judgement, and making and upholding safeguarding polcies.

IMO, Aimee is not fit to stand or to infleunce and represent others, and neither are any Green Party members who do not speak out.

I am not trying to hit below the belt here by raising this - it was something that Aimee put into the public domain and fitness of ability, judgement and character is plainly essential in someone seeking public office.

Aimee cannot reasonably use their diagnosis to explain and possibly generate sympathy one minute, then argue that it's significance be disregarded the next.

#whataimeedid #fitnesstostand #questionsneedanswers

Post 2 seafret Tue 28-Aug-18 14:53:38
Oh yes, and in Aimee's own words in the Huff Post article from 4th July 2018, HuffPost Birmingham Stories of Equality

“I was often seen as a troublemaker and whatnot, questioning authority. But now I’m doing politics I’m turning this negative thing, where people have said it will get in my way and I won’t be able to do things and achieve, into a positive.

“I’m using it in my politics as a tool to hold people to account.”

Holding to account? Or to challenge as per usual for ODD? Using it to silence women and to enforce their own rules?

Women's rights must be catnip for some with ODD... and imagine the satisfaction to be gained when they actually appear to succeed in break down those rules (including removal of safeguarding procedures for children) and install their own.

Post 3 seafret Tue 28-Aug-18 15:08:59
Whose authority was Aimee challenging when this came to light? The school?
Why didn't Aimee challenge David Challenor's authority? asked Placemats

Not sure if you are responding to my posts about Aimee and ODD, placemats but I guess that as children with this disorder grow up, most will learn to manage and control it to some extent - or at least channel it (mask it?) so that it becomes less obviously socially provocative.

Attacking women under the guise of the trans extremist agenda would be an excellent way of appearing to be chanelling hostility into something, er, 'constructive'.

Aimee mentioned re-building their relationship with DC so perhaps with this cause Aimee found, DC was able to be seen as an ally where they could campaign to erode women's rights together.

Soemthing was mentioned on another post about how even abusive relationships have the potential to unite against a common cause.

I do not think it is not a suprise that Aimee has a MH disorder. And don't see it as an unfair label. But AC needs help for it not enabling and collusion. The Greens are clearly blind. Thank got the suspension has happened at last.

seafret · 31/08/2018 19:21

All parties should be DBS checking at the very minimum. A determined abuser may always manage to deceive people and not have been charged but I mean. bloody hell, don't people want to be able to think that they did the very best they could to safeguard people? And it is in their own interests too. Sheesh

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2018 19:28

Tara Wolf also was assessed by the court in Tara's trial as having ODD.

Ereshkigal · 31/08/2018 19:29

I believe though would have to check that it was considered a mitigating factor for Tara's assault on Maria McLachlan.

seafret · 31/08/2018 19:45

I am not I believe that these diagnoses are the whole story, and a MH diagnosis deosn't necessarily mean that every thing you say is written off but as madness or a symtpom, but a personality type disorder does rather cast doubt over motive and reasoning. and ODD is hardly unproblematic or a virtue of the ideal employee; but regardless, I think a diagnosis of this or similar should be making people question the extent to which the person's opinions and behaviours are rationally motivated and what degree of rational control they have over their behaviour. It is possible to appear very high functioning in some aspects but way off the scale in others.

But you can't argue lack of culpability unless you are willing to also willing to accept that it lessens your credibility and competance where relevant and in need of treatment, and if someone claims little to no control then surely you open the door to it being likely that they need inpatient treatment for their sake and ours.

You cannot have all the cakes

seafret · 31/08/2018 19:46

Oops sorry for cut and paste error at start. I am not sure that I beleive these diagnoses are the whole story...

seafret · 31/08/2018 19:49

I also think it makes them more of a threat to women, not less.

Ihuntmonsters · 31/08/2018 20:35

I'd be a little bit wary about the ODD given the history of care proceedings which alleged Munchausens. In retrospect it looks as if SS investigated the wrong parent of course, probably because Tina Challoner had already had her older children removed.

bitheby · 01/09/2018 22:28

I still have sympathy for her. What a complete mess but she's young and let's hope she can live a happy life well away from frontline politics.

chchchnamechanges · 01/09/2018 22:30

By survivors she could mean both herself and her family? Those affected, perhaps not always directly?

R0wantrees · 02/09/2018 09:49

bitheby worth hearing Lisa Muggeridge's comments. LM is a Social Worker with considerable professional and personal insight.

Aimee Challenor is a former Looked After Child who has been failed by so many adults, organisations and public services who had responsibility.

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=176&v=aOSHmnNX1f4