should young girls go to prison for "false rape claims"

[traceyracer]

nypost.com/2018/06/05/former-college-student-who-claimed-rape-admits-it-was-all-lies/

Won't sending her to prison make it harder for the real victims to come forward?

And what if she's mentally ill and needs help rather than criminal-minded?

if rape is a crime like no other (which it is) then it has to follow that a malicious allegation of rape (by which I mean 100% false with deliberate criminal intent) is a false accusation like no other and should be treated as such.

Sending someone to prison is not done to help them.

A rapist being found not guilty does not mean a perjury charge will be brought. I suspect it will only happen in a small number of cases where the cps believes that it has evidence to prove perjury beyond reasonable doubt.

I am sure mental incapacity is a defence and ‘being in a bad place’ can be used in mitigation for a lighter sentence.

However, if perjury is proved, of course a custodial sentence might be appropriate. Why wouldn’t it be?

so yes I think it's appropriate to punish someone who blatantly and intentionally lies about another person and causes distress

Well i think most people on the thread have said this

Not everyone but most

There has been far to many of these false claims lately and it is ruining lives.

That is true, whether or not it's far exceeded by unsuccessful rape convictions. It's not a competition.

The claim that false rape allegations are increasing is false

How does anyone know this? There have been quite a few in the media. Perhaps they have more potential to ruin lives because there's a drive to successfully prosecute more rapists (which yes I think is a great thing).

I don't know. I've heard of women destroying men's lives where they have made up false claims, but I suspect there's usually a mental disorder behind it. If it can be proved some way that it was malicious, then yes.
However, what about women that told the truth and the rapist was not convicted? There has to be evidence that the claim was made up, and the intention of the allegation, before a prison sentence.

here has been far to many of these false claims lately and it is ruining lives

that is true

To quote another poster...how does anyone know this

No, very few girls/women come forward as it is, this would deter everyone. And then all the rapists walk free, able to rape another day.

Then, if we're locking up people making false claims about rape, we would need to start locking up anyone who makes a false claim about anything. How about we lock up those that made false claims about Brexit? Lets just lock up everyone, because I'm yet to meet a person that has never lied about anything.

I think most people assume most men are innocent. Rape claims don't ruin people's lives (true or not) because of the halo effect.

NameC
Is that post ment to be serious?

Of course I'm being serious.

People also deliberately make false claims about other crimes. Burglary so they can make dishonest insurance claim, GBH when they intend to get revenge on whoever it is who's been falsely accused.

A family connection was plagued by a woman who, as well as committing acts of vandalism against his relatives, made a series of allegations of assault against him.

Initially the police assumed my connection (a relative of a relative) had committed some low level offences but the woman quickly escalated, thank goodness. Her insanity became unmistakable.

Her final act was to call 999 claiming that my connection had broken in, tied her up and raped her. When the police arrived the ropes lay around her, as she said she had only just freed herself.

However the police smelled a rat and did some forensic work. They proved there had been no one else present and that the scene had been staged. On top of that, it turned out my connection couldn't have possibly done it. She was prosecuted and he has heard nothing further.

That's a case where the complainant should be prosecuted, but rape was only one of the charges she tried to have brought against a totally innocent man.

The percentage of deliberately false claims made of serious crimes is low, and AFAIK it's the same whether it's rape or the theft of valuable jewelry. In such cases prosecution may be suitable. However I am not sure that it's suitable for rape cases unless real malevolence can be demonstrated.

I think back to Jimmy Saville. How many of his victims might have been judged as wicked girls trying to smear a national treasure had they tried to get him charged?

prawn

I know someone accused of sexual assault

Luckily for him there was cctv evidence and the accuser confessed to having been persuaded to do it by a third party

I think it's disgusting that women do this and they should absolutely be sent to prison.

Just women

Or should we send men who make false accusations away as well

We haven't really said men but i assume that we all feel the same way about them

Of course it should apply to men too, but in reality the majority of false rape claims are brought by women so its women's responsibility to sort this out.

I think it is being sorted out

Confused as why you think its not being sorted out

I'm not so convinced. The number of examples put forward in this thread alone show that it's a fairly widespread issue and yet we still have posters trying to argue that it doesn't ruin lives becaude mist men aren't innocent.

Of course it should apply to men too, but in reality the majority of false rape claims are brought by women so its women's responsibility to sort this out.

This'll be the MRA response to 'it's men's job to sort out male violence', then.

Are you saying that MRAs want equality then? Or are only men as a group responsible for their actions?

Funny how this is the one thread about rape where there "Men get raped too!" posters aren't doing their thing, the gender neutralizing of "people get raped by people" isn't being trotted out.

Very strange sillage

But to be fair...i did try and introduce a 'what about men' bit

"False allegations
A variety of definitions of false allegations of rape were found to be in operation amongst police and prosecutors. Some definitions included recording intoxicated victims, delayed reporting, victim retraction,8
and lack of physical injury / medical evidence as false allegations.9
Using definitions reflecting such perceptions would lead to lassifying 12% of rape cases in the database as false. However, a narrower definition focusing on complaints that were perceived to be malicious would classify 3% as false. Even when taking the broader definition, the prevalence of false allegations in GBH cases was lower (2%). The
findings suggest a clear difference in the perceived nature10 and frequency of false complaints across the sexual/non-sexual divide. "

from the link
Boggling that anyone can use that to say 12% of accusations are definitely false when reading that it is quite clear that it says that police, prosecutors etc assume lots of women / girls are lying for totally random reasons and when those ficgures are taken uncritically it comes to 12%.

To repeat the 12% includes " Some definitions included recording intoxicated victims, delayed reporting, victim retraction,8
and lack of physical injury / medical evidence as false allegations".

So WHY this is seriously being used as a "gotcha" is anyone's guess, comprehension issues I assume.

Women and girls who are found to be definitely provably lying are taken to court and tried. These cases are then reported in the papers at a much higher rate than any actual rapes including convictions, giving the impression that the two are equivalent in frequency. They are not.

Then you get the common idea that anything other than "not guilty" means "innocent" and all those women and girls should be punished.

This is bogstandard rape myth stuff.

Look at that report about no criming a few years back.

The variation in % of rapes no crimed was massive between different forces. Only an idiot would conclude that women and girls in X region were compulsively lying about being raped all the time while in Y region they were not. Rather than the more obvious conclusion that the forces had different attitudes and approaches to this crime.

We go over and over this stuff. Anonimity for men accused of rape as there's a massive stigma and it's not the same as other crimes. What , lke child torture, ripping off vulnerable old people, extreme animal cruelty, beating people while you're working as a carer for vulnerable people with learning disabilities.... Really? There's not much stigma for those crimes?

No - it's because it is a crime where the victims are presumed to be likely to be malicious liars, which is where it differs from other crimes. Because sexism, because rape myths.

Why do we have to rehash this over and over and over?

If it's a proven lie, yes, prison.

The "8, 9,10" in the quote from the doc refers to the following notes:

" Note 40% of rapes were in domestic violence situations impacting on victim retractions (see Table 21 in
Appendix A). 9
Note this broader definition includes cases wherein there may be no evidence of the allegation being ’false’. 10 GBH is typically a violent act with physical injury, whereas an injury from rape may not always be visible nor
witnessed. "