should young girls go to prison for "false rape claims"

[traceyracer]

nypost.com/2018/06/05/former-college-student-who-claimed-rape-admits-it-was-all-lies/

Won't sending her to prison make it harder for the real victims to come forward?

And what if she's mentally ill and needs help rather than criminal-minded?

Doing so should only be done when they can say 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that the girl/woman has made a false claim, the same way a boy/man only tends to be convicted when they can say 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
I do not believe it should categorically be decided that if the alleged is found not guilty then it must automatically alleged victim is the guilty one, because we are all aware of how many not guilty verdicts are given despite the rape actually happening.

Thank you kids ill have a look at it in a bit

I remember seeing evidence that people deliberately make up rapes about as often as they make false reports of other serious crimes, like burglary and assault. It's rare, only about 3% of reports

We prosecute people who lie about burglary to make a false insurance claim, and we should prosecute malicious claims of rape too, as long as they definitely are malicious, and particularly those that result in someone going through a police investigation with all the stress that involves. As PP have said, the name of a suspect often slips out and they may be tainted forever.

This is a completely separate issue to the dismal conviction rate for rape. We should, as a society, be looking at how to improve the criminal justice system.

Should say that if n accuser can absolutely be proved that they maliciously lied about the raoe then yes obviously they should be punished

My understanding is that usually this happens in the uk

And although i agree that currently we do not operate a systm where the accuser becomes the accused Some newspaper articles following a not guilty verdict dont seem to understand that and neither do the people making online comments

From kids link

'A variety of definitions of false allegations of rape were found to be in operation amongst police and prosecutors. Some definitions included recording intoxicated victims, delayed reporting, victim retraction,8 and lack of physical injury / medical evidence as false allegations.9 Using definitions reflecting such perceptions would lead to classifying 12% of rape cases in the database as false. However, a narrower definition focusing on complaints that were perceived to be malicious would classify 3% as false*

Is this the bit you meant?

Cos if it is

It doesnt mean what you think it means

If it isnt the bit you mean then apologies as i cant find it and am obviously missing something

I agree prawn

I had read that it was 3% and i think that 3% included mistaken identity but i may well be completely wrong on that

I remember seeing evidence that people deliberately make up rapes about as often as they make false reports of other serious crimes, like burglary and assault. It's rare, only about 3% of reports

Evidence, please.

**VickyEadie

I'm intrigued by the thread title - "young girls".

Why not 'women'?**
Because the female in the link was 17 ergo a young girl.

hearts

Kids link says 3% malicious claims

Though it may make little practical difference to this post the criminal test is not "beyond all reasonable doubt but "beyond reasonable doubt" - this is now usually expressed as "are you sure?

Your Ministry of Justice link doesn't say what you say it does, KidsDriver. It gives a figure of 3% for malicious reports, not 3-12%. It's easy to misread it, though, because they do say that 12% of reports are false but then define "false" in a very unhelpful way as basically meaning any allegation of rape not provable in court, which is not how most people would see it. When I hear that 12% of rape claims are false I understand that as that saying women are making false reports, not that 12% of reported rapes can't be proved in court.

Thats what i thought prawn

Dreadful really that it says that

Yes, in cases where the allegation is clearly malicious and false, of course they should be jailed.
Rape, quite rightly, carries enormous consequences. A false accusation can ruin a life. If an innocent person's name can be dragged through the mud in the press before a conviction, then we must be also willing to jail malicious accusers trying to exploit this.

Glad it was only on page 11

Would have been a right pain reading the whole thing!

Rufustheyawningreindeer thats the summary but there is a lot more later on in the body, section 4.11 in particular. It going into what type of cases add up the figures... Prawnofthepatriarchy I never said 3-12% was malicious, I said 12% is provable to be false and 3-5% is malicious... (3-5% depending on study) the one I found quickly for this chat says 3%.

A false accusation of rape is not just those which are provable to be malicious... it's all accusations which are not true. The total provable to be not true is the 12% figure.

Ill have another look kids

kids

I honestly think its saying the same thing

Section 4:11 just mentions a few cases

Some of which may be false so would fall under the 3%. There doesnt appear to be any further reference to 12% being false (malicious)

Just that the definition of 'false' used hy the police and CPS covers

Cases were there is no injury....doesnt mean the 'victim' is lying

Cases were the 'victim' so pissed she doesn't remember anything....doesnt mean the 'victim' is lying

Cases were The reporting was delayed....doesnt mean the 'victim' is lying

Cases were the 'victim' retracted her accusation...doesnt mean the 'victim' is lying

We are both posting in good faith ...but we disagree completely on the meaning of the 12%

So i think we will just have to agree to disagree

Im certainly not reading anymore of that sodding government paper

kids

But the whole thread is about putting women in prison who make a false accusation of rape

If making a false accusation covers jailing a woman who retracts her accusation...well thats dreadful!

And its not all accusations which arent true

Its accusations which the police believe might not be true

Because a traumatised women delayed reporting or isnt injured

And they certainly are note provably untrue

Because a traumatised women delayed reporting or isnt injured

Or because all parties were ratarsed and it was not provable that the accuser didn't consent.

Prosecutors are not quite so eager to charge victims with false reports on the word of police officers who badger them into recanting the rape accusation. Too many were later found to be telling the truth.
Bad for the prosecutors career.
A lot of crimes could be solved if they processed the rape kits. But they don't.

Wouldnt disagree with that one either slarti

Oh my god

Im reading a book, watching telly and attempting to mumsnet

And just look at the effect that has on my typing