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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

should young girls go to prison for "false rape claims"

311 replies

traceyracer · 26/08/2018 11:51

nypost.com/2018/06/05/former-college-student-who-claimed-rape-admits-it-was-all-lies/

Won't sending her to prison make it harder for the real victims to come forward?

And what if she's mentally ill and needs help rather than criminal-minded?

OP posts:
batshitbetty · 26/08/2018 21:43

@Flyingpompom I many I was disgusted at the false accuser, apologies if it came across differently

batshitbetty · 26/08/2018 21:46

*meant

bd67th · 26/08/2018 21:49

We have to be very very careful when prosecuting false rape accusation cases, because the alleged false accuser might be lying when they retract. The police are rather prone to pressuring rape victims, particularly young ones, into retracting allegations. These coerced retractions have sometimes then been used as "evidence" that the victim lied. It's wrong to expect anyone to flawlessly navigate such abuse of police power, and cases like this should only go to court if the prosecution service have made sure that the police didn't coerce the retraction.

There has also been at least one case where a school-aged girl falsely accused a teacher because she was being sexually-abused outside school and knew no other way to get help. Jon Brown of the NSPCC said "where a false accusation is made, it can often be a cry for help from a troubled young person who is in need of help but can't bring themselves to say what has actually happened or is still going on", indicating that cases like the one above, where the victim is truthful about being abused but has misidentified her attacker, are commonplace. Sexual abuse is a situation that no human should ever have to face and it is ridiculously unjust to expect a child or young person to flawlessly navigate sexual abuse and its consequences, including reporting.

I concur with a PP that we shouldn't jail people for non-violent crimes, unless they are repeat offenders or have committed a crime over a long period undetected (e.g. skimming a pension fund for years). Appropriate alternatives to a custodial sentence for a false accuser could include a written published retraction and apology, and monetary compensation to the victim. Garnish her wages if she can't pay the compensation upfront.

Please don't call young women "girls": until I read the article, I thought you were talking about children.

AuntMsVanillaRose · 26/08/2018 21:59

How is it "madness" (nice use of ableist language) to suggest that some allegedly false claims might actually not be false? There was a case where a multiple rapist was caught and there was forensic evidence proving he had raped a woman in another US state from the one in which he committed most of his crimes. And that woman had been convicted of wasting police time.

bd67th · 26/08/2018 22:31

Please don't call young women "girls": until I read the article, I thought you were talking about children.

Sorry, my error. I've just done the arithmetic and she was 17 at the time. I saw her current age of 19 and didn't join the dots to the offence being two years old. That makes me all the more concerned that she have retracted under police pressure and then, when charged with lying, pled guilty as the path of least stress. Remember that the stress of a similar trial drove Eleanor de Freitas to suicide.

KidsDriver · 26/08/2018 22:33

Rufustheyawningreindeer perhase we should agree to disagree on that lol... When it comes to prosecutions though, we only prosecute the most serious malicious false accusations. So the most serious of that 3%... they can't prosecute the other false accusations within the 12% because there was no criminal Intent (called "mens rea") in those accusations.

You're right we can't and should not prosecute a women you retracts her accusation unless it can be proved she had criminal intent when she made it therefore putting her in the 3% bracket.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 26/08/2018 22:41

Absolutely kids

As i said earlier an absolutely without doubt false accusation should be prosecuted where appropriate...which would probably be most of the cases

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 26/08/2018 22:42

Oooh lots of absolutely there!!

bd67th · 26/08/2018 22:45

Relevant research paper: repository.law.umich.edu/mjgl/vol23/iss1/1/

thebewilderness · 26/08/2018 23:04

When it comes to prosecutions though, we only prosecute the most serious malicious false accusations.

It is wrong to tell lies.

Vicky1990 · 26/08/2018 23:08

Yes of course they should, and named and shamed.
There has been far to many of these false claims lately and it is ruining lives.

thebewilderness · 26/08/2018 23:14

There are no more false rape allegations filed than any other crime and yet this is the one people demand punishment for. Coincidence? I do not think so.
Only about five percent of rapes are prosecuted.
The claim that false rape allegations are increasing is false but it always goes hand in glove with the demand that women be punished for reporting rape. The myth of false rape accusations is often also used by MRAs to argue for legalizing rape.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 26/08/2018 23:17

The claim that false rape allegations are increasing is false but it always goes hand in glove with the demand that women be punished for reporting rape

Yup

MrsTerryPratchett · 26/08/2018 23:30

There has been far to many of these false claims lately and it is ruining lives.

Not a tenth of the lives ruined compared to actual rapes that don't get convicted.

Tell you what. I can sort out the whole thing. Do it on balance of probabilities, strap everyone to lie detectors, make the level of consent 'enthusiastic and ongoing'. If men actually had to wait for enthusiastic consent, all those 'formally convicted but now acquitted' Che's Evans types would be in prison.

Flyingpompom · 27/08/2018 01:08

@batshitbetty
I'm sorry, I had intended to apologise to you. I was awfully rude, no excuses.

The person who was accused was a family member, and the accuser was a friend at the time. I hated her for a good while, and the damage to his life was extensive- unimaginably so. Over the years I've worked through my emotions a great deal, and I- along with the rest of my family- have forgiven her. She was a troubled young girl and we feel more pity than anger nowadays. Although we're no longer friends, she eventually went on to have a good life and I'm glad. And so is the man she accused, though it's taken a long time to get there.

So someone on the internet telling me I was wrong to feel that way hit a nerve. I'm sorry.

I suppose I'm not a great person to listen to on this subject, as I'm too close to be objective, iyswim.

thebewilderness · 27/08/2018 01:25

You are a perfect example, Flyingpompom.
A woman lied and this confirmed in your mind the man made myth that all women lie all the time.
I would be willing to bet you do not apply that belief system to everything bad that anyone does to everyone you know.

MistressoftheYoniverse · 27/08/2018 01:44

Interesting...women making false accusations are still victims?..mental health?...making it more difficult for real victims?...what if it was your son...sometimes people are just horrible ..or embarrassed..or angry..or hurt this does not absolve them from what they have chosen to do that deeply affects another person... so yes I think it's appropriate to punish someone who blatantly and intentionally lies about another person and causes distress

Flyingpompom · 27/08/2018 01:45

@thebewilderness
I have no idea how you got any of that from my post, at all. Where do I say that women lie all the time? Where have I given you an insight into my 'belief system'?

thebewilderness · 27/08/2018 01:49

I suppose I'm not a great person to listen to on this subject, as I'm too close to be objective, iyswim.

thebewilderness · 27/08/2018 01:51

MistressoftheYoniverse

Why does this conversation erupt periodically over rape and no other crimes? We know why.

Flyingpompom · 27/08/2018 01:52

No that doesn't say anything about all women lying.

thebewilderness · 27/08/2018 01:54

Did you miss the man made myth reference or is this a willful misunderstanding.

MistressoftheYoniverse · 27/08/2018 01:59

You tell me thebe.....

Flyingpompom · 27/08/2018 01:59

You are truly talking shite!
"This confirmed in your mind the man made myth that women lie all the time"

It is not in my mind that women lie all the time. The words, "man made myth" make no difference to your statement at all.

Please quote where I have stated that women lie all the time.

thebewilderness · 27/08/2018 02:21

You are a splendid example.

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