We are different

[askingquestionsisok]

Is it wrong if me to feel like there are differences between men and women and that's what makes us human?

Aside from equal pay debate (I believe same job, same pay) and similar- I do believe that there are inherent, natural differences between men and women. But it doesn't seem ok to think this or say it anymore?!

I also feel like a lot of 'feminists' use that umbrella to man- bash. Don't get me wrong, I have known a good few awful men, I've also known a good few awful women. We can't tar everyone with the same brush?!

Thoughts?

Thanks @LadybirdsAreBirds but I would then have to remember your name and re-type it, and it would be rude of me to get it wrong.
I personally normally only use this in reply to someone who has named me directly or in reply to someone at something they have said, so it is a definite response to them rather than just a vague comment left out there for people maybe to think it was for them when it wasn't. I didn't realise this was another trigger for people to get irate over

I've posted for the first time on FWR today but you were all not as nice as I wanted you to be.
I think you should be nicer because people would listen to you more.
I'm leaving now because you're not nice enough. Goodbye.

Tiresome.

Just use an obvious part of the name, like the first couple of words, and put it in between two * It's really not hard.

Not a problem floral no-one had directly asked me not to do that, and I'm sorry you interpret that as confrontational it is by no means meant like that.
That's is exactly what I have asked of the people who have linked it to rape, and violence still yet to have that explained as the feminist aspect ?
I have already explained in reply to the OP I completely respect that original movement of feminism, I believe women should be treated as equal to men, as they are. I don not agree or respect what some women have brought to be the fight of feminism in areas that are not, it completely disrespects what the generations before us have achieved.

Thanks LadybirdsAreBirds but I would then have to remember your name and re-type it, and it would be rude of me to get it wrong.

Can you not just copy/paste the poster's name and bold it? That's what I'll be doing, now that I've discovered the @ gets an email sent to the poster

Again floral I don't see the need for the attitude and you are calling me confrontational, it is a discussion that should be able to be had without such attitude just because we differ, it's a very small minded attitude to an open discussion forum.

I don not agree or respect what some women have brought to be the fight of feminism in areas that are not, it completely disrespects what the generations before us have achieved.

To me the liberal inclusive feminists are the ones who completely disrespect what the generations before us have achieved. Someone mentioned a few days ago that no other civil rights movement is expected to be inclusive, that was putting it very succinctly. By their very nature movements like feminism have to be exclusive.

I'm sorry Tigger, I'm not getting much clarity from that reply, it's a little jumbled. Perhaps you are typing on a phone, I am and for some reason I am missing words out this evening. I'll ask again to be sure - what do you think 'Feminism' is all about?

You seem to be intimating that it's about 'equality'. I and other feminists are going to tell you that it's not, and that the definition of Feminism is very importantly connected to the disadvantages women face structurally and physically in what is termed 'Patriarchy', that is, a system set up to benefit men. Dealing with the prevalence of male violence is a core part of that.

Tigger, we're clearly cross posting, but if you could stop with the injunctions to be nice, I'll probably be more inclined to respond without heavy doses of snark.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets

If I turn up with the username Neverbeenerambling and use my first few posts to go on about how I feel rambling has gone too far and repeatedly say things like 'you're making me feel really unwelcome' then how will the ramblers react to that?

That wasn't my first choice of username but the only one that hadn't been taken after 3 or 4 attempts. Regarding ramblers, or any other single topic group, I honestly think that if someone was a novice then the established hierarchy would be bending over backwards to share their passion with the new person.

and we aren't required to educate anyone.

Of course not but if you want to 'spread' the message then you will have to educate people. That means spreading your message far and wide and making it accessible to all. I only arrived here because MN seems to be the only place on the internet where these issues are being discussed. Ok I won't keep going on about new posters being made to feel unwelcome but even from this short thread there are other things going on which could well alienate (I know who am I to criticize). But, as an older person, although I don't quite think of myself as a twee yet, some of the language really makes me wince. Also, the majority on here appear to be very well educated which can feel very intimidating. I left school at 16, I don't have any degree let alone one in sociology or gender studies so people like me do need the message dumbed down.

Going back to my user name, I never have thought of myself as a feminist and still don't. As I said in my original post I have concerns about about the whole transgender debate but I'm not at the stage of necessarily agreeing with the dominant mindset here, that's why I will ask questions.

Anyway thanks for replying to me and I hope I'm still welcome to hang about x

It's usual for genuine newbies to read, then post comments or questions on existing threads.

Those who wade straight in with a provocative thread are viewed with great suspicion, especially if they make comments suggesting people are doing feminism wrong. On a Feminist forum.

NeverBeen, I understand the intimidation. I'm well read, but my education is not degree level. I did go to uni for a year, but I never completed the degree (I had to quit to care for my ill mother) Stick at it. The women here are blunt and don't take crap, but they will, to a woman, fight for your rights as a woman and for the rights of all other women, and I think that makes them worth giving some time too.

Can you really not see that the user name isn't a great start?

Ask questions by all means but if they are couched in 'I have always felt that feminists are horrible' or 'I have seen people be really nasty here' then, combined with the username and citing 'research' which is actually sexual abuse can't you see how that makes you look disingenuous? Aggressive even.

*to. Bloody hell my typing is appalling this evening.

And regarding other single interest groups this is the same on any mumsnet board. Go over to SN, grab the username 'IBlameTheParents' and wade in there and see how you get on only please don't do that because they are drowning in goady fuckers tbh.

I don't feel empowered, supported or taught

Oh bugger, are we doing femininity wrong again

floral yes the accurate definition of feminism is The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.. I know there have been a number of "waves" to do with sisterhood and a later one of race and class so I know it has changed from the original movement. I also agree with the patriarchy aspect were the government and industry is top heavy with a male influence and power and that needs to be rebalanced and I believe it is slowly going the right way...but far too slowly and far too late in the day.
I still don't understand how this is brought back to a feminist debate about rape and violence ? I am genuinely curious as for the life of me I can't see the link in the debate. I'm not being any if things you have called me ..I'm purely asking for some explain the exact link

I think (in general) women are more emotional

Yanno how men go into rages and smash things including killing people?
Obviously men are far more emotional than women.
Or possibly they are not taught to control their emotions the way women are.

Tallulah-

Apparently so. Surely the aim of any human is to empower another? Especially if you feel like it's a teaching moment?

Surely the aim of any human is to empower another? Especially if you feel like it's a teaching moment?

Who have you empowered today?

I still don't understand how this is brought back to a feminist debate about rape and violence ? I am genuinely curious as for the life of me I can't see the link in the debate.

I'm a bit hard of understanding but I thought it had been explained very well upthread.

VickyEadie

It's usual for genuine newbies to read, then post comments or questions on existing threads.

Those who wade straight in with a provocative thread are viewed with great suspicion, especially if they make comments suggesting people are doing feminism wrong. On a Feminist forum.

I have been reading for several weeks and maybe I just don't understand what feminism is. This has been the first thread I've seen that I felt could fill in some gaps in my understanding of gender.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets

Can you really not see that the user name isn't a great start? shock

Ask questions by all means but if they are couched in 'I have always felt that feminists are horrible' or 'I have seen people be really nasty here' then, combined with the username and citing 'research' which is actually sexual abuse can't you see how that makes you look disingenuous? Aggressive even.

Apologies I certainly didn't mean to sound aggressive. As for my user name, well at least you will remember me

FloralBunting

Thank-you

My sons, my niece, my other half. Every moment can be empowering as long as your aim is not to tear someone down.

Am I good enough for you?

the accurate definition of feminism is The advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
That is the backlash definition because the 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.
Still, even after all these years, and in spite of men constantly redefining Feminism to prioritize themselves.

Surely the aim of any human is to empower another?

Ah now you're just fucking with us 🤣