We are different

[askingquestionsisok]

Is it wrong if me to feel like there are differences between men and women and that's what makes us human?

Aside from equal pay debate (I believe same job, same pay) and similar- I do believe that there are inherent, natural differences between men and women. But it doesn't seem ok to think this or say it anymore?!

I also feel like a lot of 'feminists' use that umbrella to man- bash. Don't get me wrong, I have known a good few awful men, I've also known a good few awful women. We can't tar everyone with the same brush?!

Thoughts?

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2016registrations

My last post was to Alldaybreakfast

The thing is OP, no feminist is saying that there are no differences between men and women. That is a strawman argument that has been set up by anti-feminists to make us look unhinged. And they've been mightily successful because so many people have the same opinion as you - that feminists are under the illusion that men and women are completely the same and therefore crazy.

I believe that there are differences between men and women of course I do. I just probably don't think they are the same as you do. I think men are physically stronger than women sure, but I don't think they're better at Maths than women. Or Science. Or that they're more logical. Or less emotional.

And I ask myself why we don't consider anger to be an emotion? Especially when its consequences are far worse.

Why are there threads deriding women for being bitchier and cattier and nastier to each other than men? Why is female in-fighting seen as worse than men's when men's in-fighting can lead to actual real physical violence? Which surely is objectively worse?

Why is anger not considered the illogical too-emotional personality trait to have?

Probably because if we did we'd have to change our narrative of the strong stoic rational man who doesn't let his emotions get in the way.

And we'd have to admit that empathy is actually far more logical. Because we all have to live together after all.

So ask yourself which differing personality traits you believe men and women have and look at how society reinforces them? Whatever small differences between men and women possess they are blown up by socialization and are so damaging to those people who don't naturally conform to them.

NeverBeen, sadly, the enormous amount of bad faith posting that goes on in this section means it is really difficult to just ' take people at face value' here, because a significant amount turn out to be pretty nasty liars with some very unpleasant aims.

If you genuinely want to engage, and I'm willing to accept that you do, then you have to understand the climate here is defensive for a very good reason.

NeverBeen

Sometimes what is printed here is also copied and reprinted in social media and used as a way to doxx women, with the blatant intent to get them to lose their livelihoods. It's shocking and disgusting.

I joined the Ramblers Association for a year. I went on one walk and I was made so unwelcome as a single woman that I was fuming I had spent the money on it. I had no intentions of 'stealing a man'. I simply wanted to get fit.

placemats
I can understand that and tbh I very rarely meet up with anyone preferring to walk solo but I do chat to other 'ramblers' online just because they do have nice online persona's and they can point me in the direction of interesting walks.

I won't say too much more- honestly because my youngest has just got home from a day out and I want to spend some time with him.

Also, I can see you all think I'm a man or worse- a journalist?! So I don't want to add fuel to the fire as it seems you have all been burned before by people asking antagonistic questions just for the response.

I'm genuinely a mum and I was genuinely interested.

I wish you all the best, whatever you believe in and whatever stage of this learning journey you are on.

Thanks to those who engaged with lessons and real answers.

Have a good evening all. X

A man who won't take "no" for an answer when it comes to entering the women's loos certainly cannot be trusted to take "no" for answer when it comes to sexual boundaries.

The perfect example of that is men like the bloke on youtube who insists he's a lesbian, and that lesbians are very unfair to exclude him from their dating pool just because he has a penis.

The problem with your op, askingquestionsisok is the lazy, ridiculous and totally false oft repeated trope of feminists being 'man-bashers' and/or man-haters.

Feminists question and highlight the patriarchal structure and systems and the impact on women.

No-one says there are no differences between the sexes.

The most 'man-bashing' person I know is my husband, he despairs of and has little tolerance for the attitudes and behaviours of his sex.

The @ brings up the people who are posting in the thread so you don't need to remember their name and then get it wrong, please advise me of another way of this without a @ and I will do that. I thought it just identifies who you are replying to.

@FloralBunting, I don't understand the "mate" bit as I am clearly not. Thought we were all adults with the ability to have a discussion without needing to be so confrontational. And you again quite clearly do not understand feminism if you think the movement is so woman can say men shouldn't rape women, or commit violent offenses. And no one has given a valid reasoning relating to this ( and not off in tangent of other things ) where the feminism aspect is required.

I really find it annoying when people assume that all feminists don't have loving relationships with men (and in some cases, sons)

(I also thought you had to do the @ to get the name?? All names in the thread come up when I press @)

Tigger

At the bottom of the page it tells you how to do various things

To bold, you put a pair of * round the word.

Also, I can see you all think I'm a man or worse- a journalist?!

What'd I miss? Who thought the OP was a journalist?

Didn't someone say I posted so that this would be in the Daily Mail? I don't read the Daily Mail because I was advised by my Father in Law that it was full of rubbish! so I'm not sure how these sorts of things on the internet make their way in there?

What'd I miss? Who thought the OP was a journalist?

Nobody did. Someone explained how threads are often set up to be harvested, screenshotted, etc and then people doxxed and so on.

Ah, I see. Gotcha.

Me too Ladybirds It's infuriating.

askingquestionsisok, I hope you come back at some point. I don't think you're a man or a journalist (the suspicions about new posters right now is usually based on previous visitors from Twitter who come to tease, goad and harvest information in a threatening manner, which I'm sure you understand is deeply concerning)

If you genuinely want to get to grips with all this, keep reading threads here, and be willing to question your own assumptions. As you have a little one, I can almost guarantee that the necessity of Feminism will only become more and more apparent to you as you get older. Best wishes.

Ok I understand that you probably tire of those who come here to be confrontation and I'll try to stick around but tbh I feel like running back to my safe rambling forum. A place that's full of women (and men) who take me, and everyone else, on face value.

If I turn up with the username Neverbeenerambling and use my first few posts to go on about how I feel rambling has gone too far and repeatedly say things like 'you're making me feel really unwelcome' then how will the ramblers react to that?

Everyone gets the same chance here as everyone else. There are long term regular posters who disagree with everyone else. But we aren't required to take people coming here to goad on the chin and we aren't required to educate anyone.

@FloralBunting, I don't understand the "mate" bit as I am clearly not. Thought we were all adults with the ability to have a discussion without needing to be so confrontational.

The irony, dear god, the irony.

apologies FloralBunting

I have notifications of @ switched off.

Tigger, I will ask you nicely, do not @ me, please. It's rather 'confrontational' of you to read a thread where people ask you not to do something, say you don't see why you shouldn't do it and then do it directly to me.

But that aside, as you seem so confident that feminism has nothing to deal with addressing male violence, perhaps you'd like to outline your definition of it so we can be clear what's in view.

I was shocked to read the male suicide statistic on here lately (84 a week, biggest cause of male death under 40).

Not this again.

1. Male suicide is male violence. Male suicide is yet more evidence to support the radical feminist assertion that men are the sex responsible for most violence.
2. Suicide is not comparable to murder. Suicide is the only form of violent death where the victim consents to and wishes for their death. In this respect, it differs fundamentally from murder and manslaughter. A man does not violate anyone's human rights when he kills himself because you can't violate your own human rights, but he violates a woman's right to life when he kills her.

Stop the logical fallacy of trying to use male suicide as a "gotcha" against feminists and start encouraging men to seek support and medical help when they get depressed.