Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

AIBU - Transgender family member

105 replies

SnartyFartBlast · 22/08/2018 20:35

I have a worry. My son is going to a swimming lesson and due to a scheduling issue the only person who can take him is a pre-op M2F famly member.
I’m worried about the changing room situation as I don’t want the other mum’s and their children to feel uncomfortable, and I also don’t want an incident with the family member to upset my son. He’s having trouble dealing with this as it is. I tried to move the swimming lessons but there are no other slots available. I asked the pool if there was an alternative changing room (say the disabled toilet) but they said the M2F should use the female changing room.
I feel so distressed. Is there anything I can do?

OP posts:
TransplantsArePlants · 23/08/2018 06:50

...don't know why I said uncle. Uncle sprang to mind

TimeLady · 23/08/2018 07:51

Although the staff may well be following proscribed guidelines, this is not in the best interests of the leisure centre as a business in the longer term. If word gets around locally that adult males are allowed in the female changing room, people will simply vote with their feet.

Surely this is a case where sex-segregated exemptions are justified?

persister · 23/08/2018 09:37

if you in any way enable this you will be teaching your son that the wishes of one adult male are more important than the wishes of any number of women and girls

YY

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2018 10:25

There is no way I would let my daughters use a changing room where they have this policy.
Really, women all I’ve the UK need to be made aware that self id is being used when it isn’t legal.
I have a 13 year old daughter, I absolutely do not want her changing and showering anywhere that has a policy of allowing people to use whatever space they want, irrespective of their sex. I don’t feel it is safe or decent.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2018 10:29

Agree Latinista.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2018 10:38

africat - it isn’t just the risk of assault, it is also that I do not want my daughters to feel uncomfortable, to be looked at naked by males, to have to hide away in a corner feeling upset because there is someone in their space who they know has no right to be there. My smallest daughter is 11 and I let her go and change with her big sister, however if they were faced with this scenario, small daughter would freak and older would be very stressed. Older would try to find a staff member I imagine. To be told that he belongs in there with them ? That is shit, frankly. There will be women and girls in there who have experienced sexual assault, should they be put in this situation ?
Also I would imagine that most of the men who do assault women have relatives who think “he would never do that” . My friend was raped as a teenager by a fellow student, he was popular, handsome, super clever. She didn’t tell anyone for years as she felt no one would believe her.

Hideandgo · 23/08/2018 10:44

I really don’t see why this woman can’t bring the child into the ladies changing room (as you’ve heard from both her and the pool staff is the correct place for her) and get them organised there. Unless you think your family member is pretending to be trans and is a pervert? Why are you sending your 5 yr old anywhere with someone you believe is not trans and a pervert??

Or is this person simply trans, and can behave appropriately like every other woman in there and get the child ready for swimming.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2018 10:46

This person is not a woman, don’t be disingenuous.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 23/08/2018 10:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 23/08/2018 10:51

Ah shit, I meant to say "Little girls shouldn't be expected to undress in the presence of males unknown to them." Not men. I appreciate that no one is campaigning for men to be present when liitle girls are undressing.

Charliethefeminist · 23/08/2018 10:57

Well, they are, Zutt.

This person is not a woman

Word

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 23/08/2018 11:02

it isn’t just the risk of assault, it is also that I do not want my daughters to feel uncomfortable, to be looked at naked by males

It isn't something that should be normalised. It's socially unacceptable for little girls to undress in the presence of adult males who are unknown to them, for obvious reasons.

If the pool doesn't provide sex segregated changing facilities, they been to make that clear, then women and girls can make an informed choice about using the service.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 23/08/2018 11:03

Been = need

Charliethefeminist · 23/08/2018 11:05

Agree Zutt. There should be a sign saying Pre operative and self-identified trans women will be allowed to use female changing facilities'. Would that be illegal?

Racecardriver · 23/08/2018 11:10

So the relative isn't getting charged? Does it even matter then? Or are they obviously male? I agree with pp that trunk under clothes and straight in the pool is the best option.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/08/2018 15:06

They aren’t getting changed, but would be in the changing area with women and girls who are getting changed, due to refusing to use the facilities provided for their own sex.

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 23/08/2018 16:04

They aren’t getting changed, but would be in the changing area with women and girls who are getting changed

I'm surprised that this has to be mentioned, it's as if the only persons of importance is the relative. The girls changing for their swimming lessons are not even considered.

Juells · 23/08/2018 16:11

I doubt anyone else will even realise

I doubt that you're right.

VickyEadie · 23/08/2018 17:28

So the relative isn't getting charged? Does it even matter then? Or are they obviously male? I agree with pp that trunk under clothes and straight in the pool is the best option.

Except that it's very likely they have to go through the women's changing room to access the pool...

UnderMajorDomoMinor · 23/08/2018 17:44

What do the pool normally do? I’ve been to 2 different swimming lessons for kids and they had different rules. For 1 you went in the changing room corresponding to the child’s sex, the other you went in either. As only the children are changing scenario 1 meant male and female adults in with either all the boys or all the girls and scenario 2 means adults tend to take their kids into the changing room which they would usually use so you have single sex adults but mixed sex kids. But you still get pairs of adults with a kid both in the same changing room.

Neither seems to matter as only the kids are getting changed. Does it matter here because the pool normally split by adult sex even though it’s the kids getting changed? So normally all the adult males would take both male and female kids in the men’s changing room?

I’m just trying to get the issue straight in my head.

AllDayBreakfast · 23/08/2018 17:59

If no other option presents, could your son not just get changed in the ladies? I'm sure nobody would mind a young child in there.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/08/2018 18:05

I don't see why the adult can just thrown on jeans, trainers and a tshirt (usual mum uniform anyway, and I'm sure they won't raise any eyebrows) and accompanying the child into the male changing rooms.

The adult didn't need to strip off and there wont be anything in there that they haven't seen before.

They can always avert their eyes - or do they think that they will be in some way in danger in the men's changing room (with a child in tow)?

Fairenuff · 23/08/2018 22:12

Why won't the relative use the male changing area? Because they think they are female?

But if it's fine to have male bodies in the female changing area then it is also fine to have female bodies in the male changing area.

Therefore females can use the males.

So no problem right?

SuitedandBooted · 23/08/2018 22:58

So the relative isn't getting charged? Does it even matter then?

Of course it bloody matters! Very few Trans people actually pass in person, - pictures can be staged, voices, facial features and mannerisms are another matter. Women and girls using the female changing room are entitled to privacy, and should not be expected to change in front of any male, whatever their current "gender identity".

My daughters swim club meets at two schools which have changing rooms like the OP describes. Just a large room with benches and lockers. Any male walking in on DD and her team mates would be swiftly dealt with.

This has the potential to be a very unpleasant situation OP, and really upsetting for your child. I would either cancel the lesson, or insist the family member helps your son change poolside (shorts under trousers, then dressing gown on and home)

JuneOsbourne · 24/08/2018 06:42

Lots of people are assuming that as it's only children having the lessons that they will be the only ones getting changed. There are two school-attached swimming pools near me with the same changing set up. In one case, right before the swimming lesson is really busy with ordinary swimmers getting changed and leaving the pool. In the other, normal swimming continues as just a portion of the pool is used for the lesson.

One of them actually has three cubicles within the womens communal area but that would be very little help here as it is not enough for everyone who needs it to change in private (plus why the hell should they have to).

I'm normally wrestling two unruly toddlers so those small cubicles are not an option. And my modesty is the least of my concerns when surrounded by other women (mainly mums and grandmas). That would change if a male bodied person were suddenly sharing my bench.