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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

AIBU - Transgender family member

105 replies

SnartyFartBlast · 22/08/2018 20:35

I have a worry. My son is going to a swimming lesson and due to a scheduling issue the only person who can take him is a pre-op M2F famly member.
I’m worried about the changing room situation as I don’t want the other mum’s and their children to feel uncomfortable, and I also don’t want an incident with the family member to upset my son. He’s having trouble dealing with this as it is. I tried to move the swimming lessons but there are no other slots available. I asked the pool if there was an alternative changing room (say the disabled toilet) but they said the M2F should use the female changing room.
I feel so distressed. Is there anything I can do?

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 22/08/2018 22:16

Man = adult human male
Woman= adult human female
Male= the sex class that produces sperm
Female= the sex class that has ova and gestates young
None of those terms refer to expected gendered behaviours, all four refer to to sex.

Sparctopus · 22/08/2018 22:16

Is it one of those where you have to walk through the changing rooms to get to the poolside as well? (Most of the pools near us are like that, as well as having no family or mixed changing available). If so this person would at the very least be walking through the female changing room while girls are getting changed (if they still refuse to go through the men's).

Wanderabout · 22/08/2018 22:17

Why has this been posted in feminist chat not AIBU?

silentcrow · 22/08/2018 22:22

Did any one notice the email address OP shared?

Is this a wind up?

Would you share an actual email address? Leisure centres usually go by their location, I certainly wouldn't want to draw attention to where I lived.

afrikat · 22/08/2018 22:22

I thought most of the worry I see on here is about the potential for men using self ID to gain access to female spaces and having the opportunity to assault them. I assume you know your family member well? And that they won't be assaulting any women? Then I don't get the issue. She identifies as female. I assume she outwardly looks female therefore would appear to be in the wrong place in a male changing room. I think you're over thinking it. Your family member won't be getting undressed, they will be helping your son then going to the pool. I doubt anyone else will even realise - I don't pay attention to other people in changing rooms especially when I'm wrangling with kids trying to get them ready

Angryresister · 22/08/2018 22:27

Pass up the swimming lesson on this occasion . You are not there to validate your relative. Your sons needs come before his desire for validation. Either go in the men's or not at all.

Trousered · 22/08/2018 22:30

Great bit of dismissal there africat. If the man wants to to take the boy in with the women and girls they can all suck it up. It's the man that's the most important person in the whole scenario.

Men don't look female.

NobodyToVoteForNow · 22/08/2018 22:32

It's summer. He's a boy. Surely just send him in swimming shorts and a tshirt he can whip off as he walks through the lobby? And give him a pull-over poncho style hooded towel for when he comes out? Flipflops are easily flipped off too. Are you sure your family member's priority is helping you out? Or is he using your son to 'make a stand' in some way?

SlipperySlipper · 22/08/2018 22:36

" I assume you know your family member well? And that they won't be assaulting any women? Then I don't get the issue."

I'm as sure as I can be that my brothers and my BIL are unlikely to assault me. I'm also sure that I wouldn't want to be naked around them. Women should have a right to privacy away from males when getting undressed.

sexnotgender · 22/08/2018 22:37

Yeah, great idea... let the man in with the women changing they won’t mind at allConfused in fact why even tell them, they’ll be too busy doing the woman work getting the kids ready to notice.

sexnotgender · 22/08/2018 22:38

That was for afrikat.

BarrackerBarmer · 22/08/2018 22:45

Personally I think women and girls are entitled to privacy and dignity as a sex, afrikat. Your opinion may differ.

Also, no, males do not 'appear female' because they are male, not female.

Changing rooms are not segregated by the presence or absence of a ladybrain, and if they were, there would be a room for transwomen and no place at all for actual females, on account of ladybrain bring a myth and all.

afrikat · 22/08/2018 22:45

I might come across as dismissive but I genuinely see this issue much differently to most of you on here. I'm well aware I'm in the minority on the feminism boards though so backing away now

Italiangreyhound · 22/08/2018 22:48

"He’s having trouble dealing with this as it is." Then it's really not a good idea to send him with your family member. Not fair on anyone. It's expecting your don and the family member to deal with any issues that arise without you there, all for the sake of a swim lesson.

We've canceled going to swim classes because of parking issues and other things. If it's a hassle, just don't send your son.

Italiangreyhound · 22/08/2018 22:52

'I assume you know your family member well? And that they won't be assaulting any women?'

I am guessing most women don't expect their male relatives to assault anyone either, yet that does sometimes happen.

My 80 year old FIL doesn't assault people but I don't expect him to use the female changing room.

" I assume she outwardly looks female therefore would appear to be in the wrong place in a male changing room." That's a big assumption to make.

I think this is a lot to put onto a child going for a swim lesson.

OrchidInTheSun · 22/08/2018 22:54

* She identifies as female. I assume she outwardly looks female therefore would appear to be in the wrong place in a male changing room.*

Why would you assume she outwardly looks female. Very few MTF pass in my experience

ABitCrapper · 22/08/2018 22:57

I know 3 male to female trans people. 2 full long term old school transsexuals. They really don't pass except when posed /lit well for staged photos. However we are kind and "accept" them as females. The other is an attention seeking drama llama who is much younger and still doesn't pass. I have met many of their trans friends in passing. They don't pass either really.
I have yet to meet any trans people who totally pass.

TanFranceFangirl · 22/08/2018 23:08

I know several MTF transpeople. None of them pass except one who is a prepubescent child.

Lots of transwomen don't even attempt to pass, so the previous poster's assumption is completely wrong IME.

Italiangreyhound · 22/08/2018 23:14

Even if this person did pass, OP your son might be anxious. Maybe your son might be protective of your relative. Or maybe, like most kids, concerned how things effect them.

TimeLady · 23/08/2018 06:18

This really brings the whole issue into focus, doesn't it?

It's all very well officials saying such a male is allowed in the female area, but when it comes to the crunch, would you be comfortable changing in front of your relative, OP? You presumably know they aren't a threat, but my sense is that you wouldn't want to be in that situation yourself and, unlike your wannabee relative, have an innate empathy for the feelings of other women.

If your relative can't see the problem in this situation, then they are the one with the problem. Proof indeed that there's no such thing as a lady brain.

TransplantsArePlants · 23/08/2018 06:29

I have never encountered a pool where there are no separate cubicles.

Latinista · 23/08/2018 06:37

Can’t the child go with another child and their mum? It’s been mentioned by another p and an obvious alternative solution.
Personally I think this family member should not be asked to take care of a 5yo child if they are this clearly unable to put anyone else’s needs first.

NameChangedAgain18 · 23/08/2018 06:45

I have never encountered a pool where there are no separate cubicles.

The one near me doesn't have cubicles, just one communal space. Like the OP"s, it's attached to a school.

AngryAttackKittens · 23/08/2018 06:46

I'd cancel. Not just because the women and girls using the leisure center deserve privacy, but because if you in any way enable this you will be teaching your son that the wishes of one adult male are more important than the wishes of any number of women and girls. Little boys already get that message from the broader culture more than enough as it is.

Plus the more excuses your relative has to enter the women's changing facilities the more entitled they'll feel to do so in the future, and the more normalized that will become in the perception of other customers, leisure center staff, etc.

TransplantsArePlants · 23/08/2018 06:48

NameChange

Ahh. That's shit.

No, uncle can't go into the ladies. Must walk through the men's and son be helped to be as independent as possible as best he can. Or cahnge in the toilets outside the pool?

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