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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Examples of Silencing in trans debate?

96 replies

Mamaryllis · 20/08/2018 14:38

Jonny Best is on twitter looking for specific examples of silencing that has occurred in line with Stonewall’s trans umbrella definition - is there a good thread we can link him to? If anyone has time to provide examples, he’s putting a piece together right now...
mobile.twitter.com/JonnnyBest/status/1031500713266950144

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:18

Response to MP Liz Truss' support for MN:
"Last night Delia Johnston, the former head of a charity campaigning for trans sportspeople to be allowed to compete in their chosen gender, condemned Ms Truss. Ms Johnston said: ‘She is giving kudos to Mumsnet who are particularly vicious on this particular front. Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228488-Liz-Truss-MP-breaks-cover-backs-MN

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:22

Morgane Oger:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269698-Morgane-Oger-is-campaigning-to-shut-down-a-rape-crisis-centre-in

Challenging Andrew Gilligan's reporting of UK transgender prison statistics:
twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1001830695466041344
(discussed)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

Vancouver Rape Relief & FGM
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1000066518170746880.html
(extracts)
"The president of the BCNDP which is the political party in power in the province right now, Morgane Oger, has proudly continued the campaign to end Vancouver Rape Relief's work to heal survivors of male violence, calling the org a "private hate club."

"Yesterday, Oger told a survivor of female genital mutilation that her insistence that the mutilation happened due to her sex, not gender, was an excuse to be transphobic since the survivor insisted biological sex is relevant to women's oppression."

See Jana Cornel's twitter:
twitter.com/RadfemJana

I think this was the first time I heard of Onger:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146926-I-am-this-woman

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:24

NUS Women's and LGBT+ officers (both trans women) run workshop at Women's Conference 18, How to Deal with Terfs:

(thread links to MN intern who breached data)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs?pg=1#prettyPhoto[gallery77202844]/0/

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:28

Oh and the Dr Adrian Harrop threads are packed full of women being told to STFU.
link to threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3248676-dr-adrian-harrop-dr-misogyny-is-pursuing-another-woman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244781-dr-adrian-harrop-who-the-funk-does-he-think-he-is

CaitlinsYellowSocks · 21/08/2018 09:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhatsInAnotherNameChange · 21/08/2018 09:32

I follow a number of GC pages on Facebook.

They are routinely producing back up pages, as they are reported for 'hate speech' so often, their pages keep being shut down.

WhatsInAnotherNameChange · 21/08/2018 09:33

Yes.

It was A Woman's Place that was recently shut down and were unable to post links to their own website.

They have been reinstated since.

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:35

Pink News / Amnesty, Stonewall and Mermaids open letter to Penny Mordant:
(extract)
"The longer this delay goes on, the longer abusive invective is allowed to continue unchallenged by a government who rightly pride themselves on robustly speaking up for its minority citizens.

Several of the organisations writing to you today have built strong relationships with the Government Equalities Office over many years, and are excited to work closely together going forward. (continues)

Your role as Minister for Women and Equalities is centred on ensuring equality for all people regardless of gender identity. Can we call on you to help secure a simplified and de-medicalised process for gender recognition for all transgender and non-binary people as soon as possible?

We are under no illusions that the consultation process will be marred by people conflating separate issues and legislation, and/or using it as a springboard to further incite hatred." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242812--Amnesty-International-Mermaids-and-Stonewall-have-signed-an-open-letter-to-Penny-Mordaunt-stating-the-importance-of-reforming-the-Gender-Recognition-Act

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:40

Independent re Open Letter re Channel 4's GenderQuake Debate:
(extract)
"The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women".

Greer is a vocal holder of the contentious opinion that including trans women in women-only spaces threaten's women's rights. In her argument, she repackages trans women's right to access services as an 'invasion' and has even compared trans women to "rapists".

Such views appear to have been reignited since the government announced plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act (2004) - including removing bureaucratic stoppages in the process of changing a person's gender on their birth certificate.

Questioning whether Channel 4 is whipping up transphobia for commercial gain, the letter points out that trans women are not a threat to anyone: in countries where similar gender recognition laws are already in place, there have been no incidents of people changing their documents for malicious purposes. In fact, trans women are already entitled to single sex services and facilities under the Equality Act (2010) in the UK.

The concerns held by Greer are misplaced and misinformed, claims the letter, which urges us to fret over the injustices overwhelmingly face by trans people instead" (continues)

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3243464-Channel-4s-Genderquake-Debate-is-heavily-criticised-boycotted-by-prominent-transgender-activists-allies

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:50

Crowdfunders targetted eg Transgender Trend, Fairplay for Women, Jennifer James & Posie Parker

Charliethefeminist · 21/08/2018 09:52

Rowan that's an immense amount of work. Thank you.

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 09:55

Linda Bellos targetted and as a consequence questioned under caution:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237264-Linda-Bellos-arrested-Title-edited-by-MNHQ-to-make-clear-that-she-was-in-fact-interviewed-under-caution

Linda Bellos discusses her experience in this speech:
Event held in London, Tuesday 22 May 2018.
Organised by the Lesbian Rights Alliance.

"I'm a bit of an expert in equality law"

"Other women fought for our rights, not only the right to vote but the right for education, the right to place thoughts and now what do we find? Just as we are beginning to enjoy freedom, a group of young men & older men seek to take away those rights by claiming to be women therefore invalidating all we have fought for. So, as you can probably tell, I'm a bit pissed off. and I do intend to use the law" (continues)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE6FV8Vn7P4&index=2&list=PLHE4J0EAEJOte5hYqBStokKbN1Ssnm5By

R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 10:00

Charliethefeminist I'm just c&p ing, its all here in threads. There's so much more.

SunsetBeetch · 21/08/2018 10:08

I see that someone critiqued Johnny's article by saying he used 'alt right nazi techniques'.

I have been told I'm a bigot, alt right, can't really be anti racist or support minorities and am in league with right wing consevative Christians many times because of my stance on trans activism. As I'm sure a lot of us have.

Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
BraveAndStunning · 21/08/2018 11:15

This tweet shows how toxic being called a 'TERF' is. Although I am concerned about cops being in that list too

Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
R0wantrees · 21/08/2018 12:19

James Kirkup Spectator article, 'Fear & Loathing Grips the Gender Debate' March 2018 focuses on Mumsnet:
(extract)
"If this was simply a story of a small number of nasty people online and – sometimes – on the street doing bad things to women who speak up about a political issue, I suspect this problem wouldn’t persist. The relevant legal and political authorities would indeed pay attention to that fear, and maybe even do something, even if that was just listening to those women, meeting them, answering their questions.

But that doesn’t seem to be happening. It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people." (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

embedded link from article :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3204901-ffs-flagged-at-work-for-gender-critical-views

"Other stories in this area involve women who speak out using their own names getting abusive messages at home and at work. In both the public and private sectors, being accused of transphobic bigotry is no small matter, and even many people who know they are doing nothing more than asking questions about an issue of public interest feel reluctant to risk being tarnished with such accusations, no matter how baseless they may be. (For real-world examples of this, see Mumsnet: this thread is just the latest to pop up while I was writing this. There are too many others. )"

FlippinFumin · 21/08/2018 14:45

Has it been mentioned yet about the women being told to take off or cover their t shirts with the women’s reproductive system logo on? Can’t remember if it was a dyke March or a pride event

Sparctopus · 21/08/2018 15:01

A Labour councillor (Paul Kenyon) has been tweeting at nurses that he thinks they should be removed from the nursing register if they support the #Stickerwoman message....He's apparently a nurse himself, so his grasp of biology is not reassuring!

SirVixofVixHall · 21/08/2018 16:35

The bullying has increased from threats and insults, to trying to destroy women’s careers. The “woman who says things I don’t like” insertion to replace terf wherever used, works very, very well to highlight the misogyny.

SunsetBeetch · 21/08/2018 17:41

Paul Kenyon is an absolute twerp of a man. Overuses the word horrific.

Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
SunsetBeetch · 21/08/2018 17:46

What a big baby

Examples of Silencing in trans debate?
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