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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender referee moves to women's football after becoming a woman

56 replies

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 17:19

www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/footballs-first-ever-transgender-referee-13100554

Lucy, formerly Nick Clark, is a married father of three, and has referred thousands of amateur men's football matches.

Now Lucy has come out as transgender, and "will initially officiate women’s matches but hopes to move back into the men’s game."

Can someone explain the logic in this?

OP posts:

rememberatime · 19/08/2018 17:26

so, suddenly when someone becomes a transwoman, they lose the ability to do the job they have always done?

This person is probably, just now, understanding how shit it is being a woman who wants to prove she can simply do her job, without her biology getting in the way.

And it shows how sexist football is.

Gncq · 19/08/2018 17:28

Well, women can referee for men's teams and men can referee for women's teams.

I really don't see a problem with this at all. I'd object to a male-born person competing in the team because of their unfair advantage, but no issue as a referee.

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 17:28

But - they have women in the Premier League and Championship officials pool, don't they?

Gncq · 19/08/2018 17:29

remember I think they wanted to work for the women's team.

TransplantsArePlants · 19/08/2018 17:36

Well, my guess would be sh'ed get way more shit from men and that might influence her choice.. As do XX women referees (I imagine).

Original poster

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 17:36

I think you can transfer from men's to women's football in general as a referee (though there are separate lists). The point here is why this person is apparently using women's football as a refuge (from abuse etc.) until such time as they feel comfortable enough to return to real (i.e. men's) football.

OP posts:

Gncq · 19/08/2018 17:42

Well, why on earth not.
This person being a referee for a woman's team is not going to impact on the team's performance in any way at all.

Honestly at times you'd think GC feminists don't want transpeople to be able make any choices at all.

I suppose the only thought crossing my mind right now is do referees change in the same changing rooms as the players and how far op are they? But from a professional perspective they have every right to work for the women's team.

TransplantsArePlants · 19/08/2018 17:43

Sorry - have now read it throughly. She's a black cab driver so it looks like she can handle herself.

It doesn't explain why she's reffing women's games although it sounds like it's the reaction of the fans she's worried about - predominantly male?

Hope she's not taking a place from an XX woman

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 19/08/2018 17:44

This ref should stay put and the FA be forced to deal harshly with abusive behaviour from either players or fans. No one should feel hounded out from their job.
The women's game shouldn't have to act as a refuge because men are allowed to behave badly with no consequences.

TransplantsArePlants · 19/08/2018 17:45

IWanna

Yes. And men's football needs to sort out its reaction to gay players too

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 19/08/2018 17:46

I believe it's a scientific fact that having a girl's name and wearing blusher immediately causes a 10 point drop in IQ (especially dangerous in football as the starting point isn't usually high) and a sudden need to think about kittens which causes a malfunction in the part of the brain which governs comprehension of the off-side rule. It's a long, slow process to recover that faculty, so we should wish Lucy well.

I'm being facetious. Agree, CaitynsCat, it's probably because, for all the literal violence us women do, Lucy is far more likey to get a rubbish time (and threats) off men.

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 17:48

Honestly at times you'd think GC feminists don't want transpeople to be able make any choices at all.

I think - in fact - that one or two people interpreted it as Lucy being 'made' to move to the women's game, which was why I pointed out that women are involved in professional refereeing at the highest levels.

Most others were puzzled as to why Lucy was choosing to make this move and are inferring it was to avoid getting a load of abuse if officiating men's games (where players and officials get abused for an extremely wide range of things).

I attend Premier League matches and Lucy is probably right to assume this, though I'm not convinced the people at women's games are going to be that much less abusive.

Wrathofjurgenklop · 19/08/2018 17:53

So they are afraid of the reaction from the men's matches?
Probably correct and that does need to change.
Men need to change.
Females are generally very accepting. Lucky trans.

So why is all the gender critical abuse thrown at women as if they are the perpetrators.

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 17:54

So why is all the gender critical abuse thrown at women as if they are the perpetrators.

You know the answer to that.

Pepper123123 · 19/08/2018 17:55

Oh the horror!

Original poster

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 18:28

I think the definition of 'transwoman' is itself a difficult one.

I mean clearly for some men wearing women's clothes is something they enjoy, Lucy here does transgender DJing, you get the likes of Pip/Phillip Bunce who also seems to quite enjoy the tgirl nightlife, that police officer in Southend, etc., all while remaining married to a biological female.

Women (including those married to these people) are being quite heavily preached to that this is some sort of innate biology and denial of it is evil bigotry, and it's not even 'well Steve likes wearing frilly knickers and what's wrong with that', but 'Steve is actually Sandra and is REQUIRED to wear frilly knickers' (despite the visual evidence to the contrary).

Now fundamentally whether Steve wears frilly knickers or calls himself Sandra isn't really anyone's issue apart from him and his immediate family members, but we don't seem to be going for that line of thought, but rather some sort of biological emperor's new clothes whereby Steve was always a woman.

I don't think these 18-stone blokes becoming transwomen is a universal phenomenon - in most parts of the world TW is a role reserved for effeminate gay men.

Anyway we don't have a clear definition except that perhaps the 50-year-olds transitioning after 30 years of marriage can afford better PR, but in any case the one universal is women are the ones expected to be more accommodating to these men.

OP posts:

BarrackerBarmer · 19/08/2018 18:34

I don't think Lucy has thought this through.
Everyone knows that the biggest risk to newly fledged laydees is from scareey terfs and not from men. The likelihood of thus encountering like literal pronouny violence and existential obliteration is far higher in women's football.

As any fule kno.

hackmum · 19/08/2018 18:38

Quite right, Barracker. If Lucy referees a men's game, the worst she'll be subjected to is foul-mouthed abuse and possibly a kicking. Whereas if she referees a women's group she might be exposed to a Terf misgendering her, or she might even catch a glimpse of a "women don't have penises" sticker, which would be obviously much much worse.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 19/08/2018 18:52

Exactly. Doesn't Lucy know that literal violence is worse than actual violence? Lucy better rally cis allies for support on the pitch ASAP.

Original poster

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 19:04

Lucy doesn't seem to bright, having retweeted this meme

twitter.com/CorrectMorally/status/1030947860433522688

OP posts:

Original poster

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 19:04

too bright even, speaking of which

OP posts:

VickyEadie · 19/08/2018 19:08

"Realism", though...

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 19/08/2018 19:10

I hope Avril stumbles across the trans widows thread if she needs it.
Women can be so bloody stoic.

pombear · 19/08/2018 19:56

I'm so fucking tired. This post identifies as just fucking tired of it all:

Lucy, in your interview, you say you wanted to 'burn everything' on several occasions?

What did you want to burn? Clothes? Make up?

There are so many females in the world not wearing make up, not wearing high heels or whatever this season classes as 'stereotypical' women's clothes.

Surely if things were so bad, to make you want to jump off a building, because you wanted to be a 'woman', you would have been able to find a way to identify as one of those females - you know, the ones who don't wear make up and live in jeans and t-shirts?

You could still 'identify' as a female, just one of the ones who don't choose make up and high heels, if you felt the need to burn some of the more 'feminine' attributes of being a woman?

Why does every film of a new 'transgender woman' have to include watching them get their make-up done?

It's as if some women not 'female enough' for your blueprint of 'what makes a woman'?

Or it's actually something else going on for people like Lucy, nothing really to do with the actual, real, physical phenomenon of being female.

Rhetorical on this board, as most posters here know what's really going on here.

AnotherQuoll · 19/08/2018 20:14

That photo. It's uncanny. Is someone out there cloning Sophie Cook?

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