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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Transgender referee moves to women's football after becoming a woman

56 replies

CaitlynsCat · 19/08/2018 17:19

www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/footballs-first-ever-transgender-referee-13100554

Lucy, formerly Nick Clark, is a married father of three, and has referred thousands of amateur men's football matches.

Now Lucy has come out as transgender, and "will initially officiate women’s matches but hopes to move back into the men’s game."

Can someone explain the logic in this?

OP posts:
TimeLady · 19/08/2018 20:17

Well, I for one would be uncomfortable if Lucy was in a changing room with me. Especially if Lucy was wearing her mini-skirt and wig.....

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6075393/Footballs-transgender-referee-charge-game-today.html

pombear · 19/08/2018 20:24

And this is the fucking thing - sharing with his wife make-up tips and clothes?

How about sharing how employment is more dodgy as a female if you're seen as 'potentially having a baby' material?

How about sharing what it feels like to be peri-menopausal or menopausal with all the accompanying symptoms that you'd be likely to have at the age of 46 and what that means for navigating the world of work and home life?

How about sharing what it feels like to be a female navigating the world that is dominated by males.

Nope - let's share make-up tips and clothes.

For fucks sake.

FruitOnAPlatter · 19/08/2018 20:58

Exactly IWanna - if a Ref is driven out of a job in fear, the problem is that management is not doing their job.

busyboysmum · 19/08/2018 22:43

This is Lucy is it? It's just nonsense isn't it?

Lucy has fathered 3 children. We have now got no meaningful definition of the word "woman" if Lucy here can be one.

Transgender referee moves to women's football after becoming a woman
Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 19/08/2018 23:06

God almighty, though! Kellie is backing her as a strong woman in a male dominated environment! FFS, have these self-obsessed narcissists ever considered how an actual women could ever get a toe hold in their male dominated world? They are 'brave and strong' for being 'women' when they already had an established career. Try starting as an 18 year old with actual boobs against a wall of masculine aggression. But we're supposed to give them a round of applause and protect then from mean men.

OK, Kellie and Lucy, show us all those girls you've championed to get to the top in the face of misogyny in your sport over the last 20 years and then ask for our backing.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 20/08/2018 08:20

OK, Kellie and Lucy, show us all those girls you've championed to get to the top in the face of misogyny in your sport over the last 20 years and then ask for our backing.

Yy

Original poster
CaitlynsCat · 20/08/2018 10:06

Can anyone work out if the FA bent the rules at all?

As I can see Lucy referred QPR v Parkwood Rangers, which is Level 3 (Regional Premier Division) women's game.

Meanwhile Nick was a Level 5 (where Level 5 is lower ranking than Level 4) men's referee, but not sure how the crossover from men's to women's is supposed to go.

OP posts:
TransplantsArePlants · 20/08/2018 10:42

By identifying as a women, Lucy could show us her fellow-feeling for women and fight against sexism in sport. She could even do this wearing jeans and a T shirt.

busyboysmum · 20/08/2018 11:02

I think Lucy is planning to remarry this time also wearing a wedding dress.

Lucy's wife seems on board with all this. I wonder how the 3 kids are feeling.

VickyEadie · 20/08/2018 11:04

She could even do this wearing jeans and a T shirt.

Like many, many of us wear most/all of the time, you mean?

Juells · 20/08/2018 11:05

The point here is why this person is apparently using women's football as a refuge (from abuse etc.) until such time as they feel comfortable enough to return to real (i.e. men's) football.

Human shields. It's what women are for.

UndercoverGC · 20/08/2018 11:12

I wonder if there are different fitness standards (bleep test etc) for refereeing women's football, and Lucy on oestrogens is no longer as fast and strong as when they made their own testosterone?

DiabolicalMess · 20/08/2018 11:15

I can't get worked up about this in the slightest.

VickyEadie · 20/08/2018 11:19

I wonder if there are different fitness standards (bleep test etc) for refereeing women's football, and Lucy on oestrogens is no longer as fast and strong as when they made their own testosterone?

I suspect that would only matter at the highest levels, to be honest.

VickyEadie · 20/08/2018 11:22

Just to add to my last comment - as there are women in the Premier League ref pool, I doubt very much that it matters. It's likely to be as in the police force - you're either fit enough or you're not and the standard required is broad enough for fit women and fit men.

Original poster
CaitlynsCat · 20/08/2018 11:29

I'm not sure if the oestrogen has much to do with it, it looks more like (as they say in football) a matter of who ate all the pies.

From what I can see the standards for women's refereeing do seem to be lower in that there are fewer levels and the women's game is a way down the priority list

OP posts:
NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/08/2018 11:37

"The women's game shouldn't have to act as a refuge because men are allowed to behave badly with no consequences."

This - if true - is the issue.

Men's reactions - verbal / physical - are never challenged or addressed.
We just get all these people "takign refuge" in the estbalished women's stuff (that we had to fight and fight and fight for).

This is the same principle with prisons, refuges, and of course changing areas and toilets (which get disproportionate airtime).

Who is this referee replacing in this role - a man or a woman?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 20/08/2018 11:52

This thread reminds me of the human shields thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3317032-Using-women-as-human-shields

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 20/08/2018 17:58

It was very interesting to me that at the end of Lucy’s interview she stated that she was confident that the players would behave appropriately as she can red card them but that she was concerned about the fans after all ..”I would hate to have to make complaints to their teams”. Sounds like a threat to me. All of you football fans be warned..the queen has arrived you must all bow down to the brave and powerful.
It’s just always about the power. The power to tell women what to do and the control of their immediate environment where they place themselves at the center above everyone else.

VickyEadie · 20/08/2018 18:06

”I would hate to have to make complaints to their teams”. Sounds like a threat to me

To be fair to Lucy, abuse by fans of anyone on the pitch is usually referred to the relevant team for action. Professional clubs can be disciplined if their fans behave badly.

caringdenise009 · 20/08/2018 18:57

Why is the front bit of her dress missing? Wouldn't most "girls" be mortified to show their pants?

busyboysmum · 20/08/2018 18:58

I'd be mortified to see my dad in the Daily Mail wearing that dress/wig combo TFDS

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/08/2018 18:59

Erm it's a sexy lingerie shot like all of us ladies like to have taken of us.

Guessing some here aren't so cis after all if you don't understand that basic action of womanhood. Proper women enjoy this sort of thing and are always keen to appear for photos half dressed in ?hotel corridors.

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 20/08/2018 19:15

I think you’re much more generous in nature than me vicky 😁

Lucycref · 12/09/2018 15:03

Hi all...

I come in peace :)

Was directed to this thread by a friend so thought I would answer a few of the points raised.

Following discussions it was agreed I would only referee Womens football for my first few games back and then return and referee Men's football again. Just thought it was wise to not to do the games with bigger crowds that the level of Men's football I officiate attracts until I have got a few games as "me" under my belt. I have been refereeing women's football for the last 3 years as it is so I have not just jumped across. I still referee in exactly the same leagues as I previously officiated in. I am returning to men's football next month and have already done some U18 fixtures. I refereed L4 fixtures in Mens football and the QPR fixture that was mentioned a L5 to L7 referee can be used. I have not replaced anyone I still referee at the levels I was before the name has changed that is all...I am not getting any special treatment from the FA or anyone else for that matter,

The pictures mentioned are not me in underwear...this is a playsuit/dress and the photo was taken in a hotel before a night out. The other pictures that the papers took were off my social media and all before nights out. The one's the mirror took I was wearing jeans and a top and tbh I spend lots of time in just leggings etc and only get the glad rags on when going out for an evening etc.

I told my wife about me very early in the relationship so she had a get out clause...she stayed with me and we are very strong together. Kids are fine and have no issues other than the normal issues children have.

Yes I have ate all the pies....I suffered a series of heart attacks at Christmas which resulted in 2 operations they also then found I had something not heart related wrong with me and the medication for that along with not being able to referee for quite a while and too many pies so me put weight on...I am to get this off and get back to my old weight asap!

The pictures of me refereeing recently are not flattering I appreciate that...but would a girl referee with a full face of make up? Think you will find the answer to that it a no and I am no different.

I take turns to use the changing facilities with other male officials now and should I be paired with a female official I would quite happily take turns in that situation as well.

Hope this answers some of your points raised and thank you for the positive comments on this thread.

As I said at the start I come in peace and just thought I would try and clear a few things up

KR

Lucy