Professor Rosa Freedman

[SusanBunch]

As some of you on here know, I am an academic and I have just seen on twitter that another prominent voice has been added to the GC side: Prof Rosa Freedman, professor of Law at Reading:

twitter.com/GoonerProf/status/1029037165815185413

I cannot begin to explain how significant this is. Until today literally no legal academics have come out in support of the GC side and no articles are being written from a GC perspective, even in feminist journals. Given that the whole debate is around law-reform (duh) this is quite astonishing. Loads of woke-bro articles in support of course though.

Part of Rosa's motivation was the way that the academic community closed ranks on Kathleen Stock (one of my heroines). She says on her thread that she has already been thrown out of an academic online group for defending Professor Stock.

So, round of applause for Rosa and I hope this marks the beginning of many more female academics 'coming out'. I know quite a few of them think it (I can see who follows A Woman's Place ) but nobody dares say anything. I am far too junior and unimportant to risk being the object of vilification, so I am being a coward and keeping quiet, but inside I am celebrating.

Well, we simply need a converse campaign highlighting all the universities which prioritise male wishes over female safety. Basically the inverse of their “blacklist”. #lessequalthanothers or something.

Yes nothing wrong with highlighting the politics of university departments- and definitely true that some university departments seem deeply committed to man-pleasing..

I find the ‘steerclear’ message that right-thinkers should be boycotting these places- while universities- utterly obnoxious in implying there is some kind of unspeakable threat in their thoughts to trans people/students or in general threats to ‘social justice’ coming from gender critical people.
it’s pure projection (the threats are coming from the TRA side of this argument) but some young people might be influenced by this kind of shite. And some academics might be leant on to shut up even further by universities seeking to attract the most possible numbers of students.

*whole universities

Power and strength to you, Rosa. We know the abuse you'll have to endure and we'll support you through it. We are on the right sight of history.

need a converse campaign highlighting all the universities which prioritise male wishes over female safety. Basically the inverse of their “blacklist”

Excellent notion!

Economist Open Future article:
'The dangers of illiberal liberalism
Liberals who repress speech to prevent harm risk inviting authoritarianism', writes Claire Fox of the Academy of Ideas
(extract)
"If ever there was a vivid illustration of illiberal liberalism, it was the response to one of the essays in this very series. After The Economist published an article by Kathleen Stock, reader in philosophy at the University of Sussex, which sensitively questioned whether “self-declaration alone could reasonably be the only criterion of being trans”, the Sussex Students’ Union denounced her as a transphobe. In the union's original statement, it declared “we will not tolerate hate on our campus.” “Trans and non-binary lives are not a debate.”

These key tropes—“we will not tolerate” and “this is not a debate”—are now frequently deployed to curtail discussion of issues deemed to be taboo, invariably to “protect” people deemed vulnerable from speech deemed hateful. This secular version of blasphemy follows a sacred script, written by those who consider themselves liberals. Dare to query it and you’ll be damned." (continues)

www.economist.com/open-future/2018/08/17/the-dangers-of-illiberal-liberalism

Hmmm. Claire Fox is so far to the left that she sounds just like the libertarian right to me. I would want to agree with her on this issue and keep her at arm's length on anything else.

I would want to agree with her on this issue and keep her at arm's length on anything else.

I feel like this about both Claire and Fiona Fox.

I think Claire Fox is just interested in the free speech angle here, most of the Spiked writers seem fairly critical of various feminist issues unless they intersect with their brand of I’m alright Jack arguments.

I think in this instance there is common ground though because free speech in public life IS massively under threat from TRAs as well as al the obvious threats to women. Claire Fox is not at all wrong about that.

I’d be happy if feminists and free speech campaigners can work together to alert more people to these issues.

Claire Fox was interviewed on Julia H-B when the govt made the announcement about protecting free speech in universities. She spoke specifically about the silencing of feminists then.
She has been challenging the NUS for some time and spoke about the serious influence of some in NUS.

With regards NUS, this article by Alison Ordnung was shared by Rose of Dawn recently & is worth reading:
liberalists.org.uk/disaffiliate-now-a-liberalist-take-on-the-failure-of-the-nus-part-1-feudal-feuding/

They mean gender critical. NOT the same thing. And who the fuck do these vacuous man-pleasing thought police think they are, telling young people to avoid ideas..?!

It’s actually terrifying when you think about it. Setting aside the transgender ideology shitstorm, what the fuck do they think is going to happen twenty or thirty years down the line when the generation that has grown up in a safe space bubble takes over and finds that their critical thinking skills have been utterly atrophied? It feels a bit like we’re on the edge of a precipice and the cliff is crumbling.

Alice Ordnung's description of how NUS Women's is interesting.
(extract)
"It should be noted that just being a woman student won’t likely encourage you to engage with the women’s campaign – they draw from institutions’ Women’s and feminist societies and the campaign runs on explicitly intersectional feminist principles. Consequently, the women’s society includes many who aren’t women by their own identification – they identify as non-binary, genderqueer, or genderfluid, but still have a seat at the table of the Women’s campaign. To say the NUS Women’s campaign represents women is deeply misleading. If you don’t share their identity politics, you will likely have nothing to do with them, beyond funding them."

A reminder of the workshop at NUS Woman's 18, run by NUS officers Rowan Davis NUS Woman's (non binary trans women) and Eden Ladley NUS LGBT+ Women's Place

Both Davis and Ladley are close to Jess Bradley
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs?pg=1#prettyPhoto

@RosaFreedman1983 I wonder if you are aware of this article in Counsel magazine?
'Gender recognition and trans equality

With trans headlines constantly in the news, Claire McCann examines the law on trans rights and the dangers of misinformed debate'
www.counselmagazine.co.uk/articles/gender-recognition-and-trans-equality

Claire McGann and Michelle Brewer are the legal experts on WEP panel at the next conference.

current thread OP Procrastinator1 wrote:
"As set out in a previous thread, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3318961-Ultimate-betrayal-by-the-WEP
the WEP are going to be debating a motion which includes self ID of sex in September

Before the debate on the motion they are holding a question and answer session with two barristers who have advised the government and are thought to be very sympathetic to trans rights proponents. Twitter thread about the Q & A session twitter.com/Indy_Leya/status/1024703148236132353

One of the barristers, Michelle Brewer, is involved with an organisation called TENLI, Trans Equality Legal Initiative, with our favourite, suspended NUS trans officer, Jess Bradley"

There has been discussion on thread below about the role and influence of the Trans Equality Legal Initiative (TELI). The co-founders include Michelle Hundson, Tara Hewitt and Jess Bradley
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii

apologies, the thread started by Procrastinator1 with questions for the WEP legal panel is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325882-WEP-conference-questions-for-panel-of-trans-rights-advocating-barristers

Cack yup, when in a few years they’ll be running things.

Or you know, maybe they will be finding it all a bit too much and not running anything because you know, mean people who don’t all agree. Which would leave them a vulnerable generation and be shit for the rest of us.

Hopefully the reality will be that the ‘safe space’ peopl just gather a bit more life experience over time and then start asking some really very important questions. And they will probably be quite pissed off by then, understandably.

MsBeaujangles thank you for your very kind post. It’s a bit hard to give details without being outing but given there are male-bodied individuals already using the unadapted women’s toilets I have fears that HR will look upon it as possibly an individualised complaint and the outcome of that would be very difficult for me. So I am lying low for now. I have no doubt that it is not lawful but feel stuck with it. It’s not the only example of misogynistic management in this workplace and I am looking for other jobs. I’m really glad to know that your workplace have come to a reasonable arrangement.

For any academics on here: I've just seen on Rosa's Twitter that The Conversation rejected a gender-critical piece by her and another law academic because of fears of reprisals by TRAs (The Conversation, of course, published the pro-trans piece by Katharine Jenkins that has been discussed on another thread). This sets a very dangerous precedent, as The Conversation is funded by players in the HE sector but is operating in conflict with the principles of freedom of speech that are supposed to underpin that sector. They also contacted her to express disappointment that she had gone public with this.

If you feel able to write to the editors to express concern, you can use the following email address (I wrote to them earlier):

[email protected]

Won’t name names but I met a teaching professor recently who is GC. She told me about a recent meeting with the student union where she could barely contain her eye rolls as the students in their early 20s introduced themselves with preferred pronouns. An student from an actual oppressed background had to have the concept explained to him and was equally stunned at the pointlessness of it all.

This is a Russel group university, extremely well respected. She said the majority of staff are GC but the climate is against them.

Name
Done

Thank you, Mimi!

This is so wrong of the conversation. It is supposed to be for the exchange of ideas. Hence its title. Don't feel you have to be an academic to protest to the editor on this. This kind of censoprship affects us all.

Also firing off an email. I subscribe to The Conversation but will unsubscribe if I don't get a sensible answer.

Great points here from Dr Jane Clare Jones including a discussion with a TRA which neatly demonstrates the level of intellect of many of the people getting brilliant academic women's voices effectively silenced:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1034789506933829633?s=20

Thank you all. My university is one of the ones which funds the Conversation. If we don't get a satisfactory response to this, I will be discussing my concerns with senior management at work, and writing to the universities minister (since the government also funds The Conversation).