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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Professor Rosa Freedman

199 replies

SusanBunch · 13/08/2018 19:11

As some of you on here know, I am an academic and I have just seen on twitter that another prominent voice has been added to the GC side: Prof Rosa Freedman, professor of Law at Reading:

twitter.com/GoonerProf/status/1029037165815185413

I cannot begin to explain how significant this is. Until today literally no legal academics have come out in support of the GC side and no articles are being written from a GC perspective, even in feminist journals. Given that the whole debate is around law-reform (duh) this is quite astonishing. Loads of woke-bro articles in support of course though.

Part of Rosa's motivation was the way that the academic community closed ranks on Kathleen Stock (one of my heroines). She says on her thread that she has already been thrown out of an academic online group for defending Professor Stock.

So, round of applause for Rosa and I hope this marks the beginning of many more female academics 'coming out'. I know quite a few of them think it (I can see who follows A Woman's Place Grin) but nobody dares say anything. I am far too junior and unimportant to risk being the object of vilification, so I am being a coward and keeping quiet, but inside I am celebrating.

OP posts:
Ucantarguewistupid · 15/08/2018 11:18

Well done Rosa. Not an easy thing to have done. It's the stating silent and allowing fear to rule that allows oppression and worse to happen. Thank you for speaking up.

StroppyWoman · 15/08/2018 11:41

Rosa, your courage in taking a stand is inspiring.
Women like you and Kathleen Stock alongside transwomen like Lily Maynard are providing a vital critical voice to the TRA ideology. We need you and I'm very grateful to you all.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 15/08/2018 11:54

Brilliant to hear you’ve supported Kathleen Stock and come out as GC, thank you so much. I have just finished a PhD in which I tried to raise some GC concerns and was roundly told off by my supervisors. I’ve left academia now, I’m part because it seemed impossible to work on things that interest me and in part because I was at an institution that was at the core of all the gender nonsense in my area. I’m much happier in my new job but what a shame that I put in so much effort for the PhD and now won’t use it.

SusanBunch · 15/08/2018 12:03

wrapped I am really sorry you felt you had to leave academia. It’s shocking that these views cannot even be discussed. You’re right that at some institutions, your life would be made very difficult if you ever made your views clear. (Out of interest, it wasn’t Kent/Keele/Goldsmiths, was it?)

I really hope we are entering a new era now.

OP posts:
arranfan · 15/08/2018 12:07

I saw that Selina Todd has now officially come out too. Hurrah Selina! You, Rosa and Kathleen are inspirational.

I wonder if @JustineMumsnet is at all aware of the growing involvement of academics or is still minded that that this is a generational issue on which GC feminists will find themselves on the wrong side of history rather than the ones who spotted the potential for intersection with safeguarding issues etc. (a paraphrase of what she said)?

RosaFreedman1983 · 15/08/2018 12:56

If anyone feels able to, it would be greatly appreciated if you are able to tweet to my Uni your support of academic freedom, or to write to the Deans of Inclusion and Diversity. It seems that there are mobilised groups accusing me of hate speech (defamatory) and lodging complaints, so any support would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to ask.The past 36 hours have been rather heavy, but I am now switching off and going to do some research and work at the UN (the day job)!

SusanBunch · 15/08/2018 13:06

Rosa, I am happy to write in support of you. Should it be addressed to Simon Chandler-Wilde and Ellie Highwood? (Googled it). A bit scared of twitter at the moment as I am job-hunting and I already appear to be on various block-lists despite not having said anything gender critical on there.

OP posts:
RosaFreedman1983 · 15/08/2018 13:55

Thank you so much, Susan. Yes to Simon and to Ellie. And if I can help with the job hunt please let me know!

SirVixofVixHall · 15/08/2018 14:17

@StroppyWoman Lily Maynard is not a transwoman, she is the Mum of a girl who had ROGD and is now happily comfortable with her sex.

SirVixofVixHall · 15/08/2018 14:18

Op I am also on block lists from people I’ve never engaged with. Seems to be purely due to following GC feminists.

IAmInsignificunt · 15/08/2018 14:23

Rosa, I’m happy to write to your university.
Could academics who support you write an open letter to a newspaper?

StroppyWoman · 15/08/2018 14:30

@SirVixOfVixHall
Yeah, brain fart there.
I meant "women like Rosa, Kathleen and Lily, and transwomen like Miranda Yardley."

Apologies to all for being dozy

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 15/08/2018 18:16

Susan bunch well it wasn’t the only factor but it was a main one. I’ve lost respect for a lot of colleagues and for academia in general in my area. None of the universities you mention but it is spreading.

bigwhitecat · 15/08/2018 18:45

Rosa - another thank you from me.
I’m not an academic, but I do work as a clinician in the NHS.

I have been raising concerns / challenging policy in relation to self-identification into female only wards for almost 2 years now. Consequently, I have had some difficult conversations with senior members of my Trust.

I have considered resigning over this issue and may do in the future, however for the time being I feel I have more power within the system than outside of it.

I don’t have a social media presence & my ‘bravery’ in addressing this issue at work doesn’t even begin to compare with yours. There may be a few parallels however, and I’d be very happy to have a chat any time over the coming weeks / months if you feel it might be helpful.

I will also write to Simon & Ellie. Very best . .

Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 19:31

^Rosa - another thank you from me.
I’m not an academic, but I do work as a clinician in the NHS.^

I have been raising concerns / challenging policy in relation to self-identification into female only wards for almost 2 years now. Consequently, I have had some difficult conversations with senior members of my Trust.

Brava ThanksWine

dianebrewster · 15/08/2018 19:32

As more academic women speak out it should get easier, there's a tipping point being reached, I think, the transactivists are doing themselves no favours by trying to shut down the discussion.

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/08/2018 12:01

If people have time it would be great to email in support of Prof Freedman. Is there a way we can organize ourselves to support gender-critical academics better?

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/08/2018 12:02

Also, thank you to bigwhitecat for your hard work in the NHS. Star Flowers

UndercoverGC · 16/08/2018 12:35

Thank you so, so much.

IAmInsignificunt · 16/08/2018 14:57

bigwhitecat

I have been raising concerns / challenging policy in relation to self-identification into female only wards for almost 2 years now. Consequently, I have had some difficult conversations with senior members of my Trust.

I have considered resigning over this issue and may do in the future, however for the time being I feel I have more power within the system than outside of it.

I am in a similar situation to you. In a way I’m lucky because someone on the opposite shift to mine seems to be a fairly vocal GC feminist and has been pushing this issue further than I have been able to (I have recently returned to my role after an extended period away and don’t quite have the measure of the higher ups and trust managers yet).

This other member of staff seems to have emboldened half of our ED floor and a couple of wards whilst still being very highly thought of. She is busy, it would seem, creating a network of people within our trust (and I think more widely) with similar view points especially in regards safeguarding.
She is incredibly brave.

Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 15:02

Brilliant to hear this.

SilverBuckles · 16/08/2018 15:46

THe Equalities Act is relevant here: as far as I understand it, it allows people in specific circumstances - such as health care - to exclude trans people - even those with a GRC, if there are good clinical (or other relevant) reasons to do so in order to maintain the safety or well-being of vulnerable women in sex-segregated spaces.

THis is the aspect of the legislation that, for example, women's refuges in the UK can use. BUt are increasingly scared to do so because of losing funding from funding bodies who don't understand about the rights of vulnerable women.

At least I think this is how it all works ...

Charliethefeminist · 16/08/2018 15:50

Happy to email, Rosa.

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 16:26

Thank you Rosa Flowers I hope other academics will stand with you and others who have put their heads above the parapet.

Professor Selina Todd from Oxford has also obliquely “come out” as GC - mainly by retweeting other GC material. I’ve seen a couple of attempts to whip up a frenzy against her on Twitter by other academics, shamefully.

This is the link to Selina Todd's comment: selinatodd.com/being-an-academic-online/

Postscript
"Since writing the above, I’ve been made aware of the need to fight for our right to freedom of speech, both at work and beyond. As a gender critical feminist, I face intimidation via social media about expressing my views, sharing the evidence that informs those views, and calling for a debate. Like every other gender critical feminist I know, I encountered the current debate about whether transgender people should be able to self-identify as such (without fulfilling other legal and medical requirements) from the instinctive standpoint that I wanted to support transpeople’s rights. But after months of research, I concluded that this position would harm the rights of women, because so often what is being asked for is free access to women-only spaces. I then began to question the whole premise that someone can ‘transition’ from being a man to a woman or vice versa. You can’t change sex – biologically, that is impossible. And the notion that people can ‘feel’ like a woman or like a man seems socially conservative, implying as it does that being a woman rests on dressing or behaving in a ‘feminine’ way. Being a woman rests both on certain biological facts and on the experience of living in the world as a woman, from birth, an experience that is shaped by particular kinds of oppressions. A movement that claims to be advocating a liberating kind of ‘fluidity’ is in fact reinforcing and promoting highly conservative gendered stereotypes.

Very often the implication is that precisely because I am an academic, I should not be allowed to express these views because my position means that I should know better. There are two problems with that (il)logic. First, it seems inconsistent for a group of people who claim that their own identities are fluid to claim that I can only ever act in my role as a professor at Oxford University, whether I am at work or not. But second, there is every reason why someone whose day job is in academia should defend open, evidence-based debate. But there’s a third problem, too. This is about shutting women up, as Kathleen Stock – another academic who has faced bullying and harassment for her views – has written. Because women academics tend to shoulder the lion’s share of pastoral and welfare work, being threatened with student complaints about not feeling ‘safe’ in our presence can be particularly personally hurtful and professionally harmful. Such tactics can work – because behind the overwork and the constant exhortations to use social media and publish, publish, publish, lie the fears of many women that they simply will not get jobs or get publications if they speak out on this issue (Stocks herself has tweeted about this). Fortunately, though, there are a growing number of feminist academics who are speaking out, refusing to be bullied and demanding that we challenge the boundaries of academia, focusing less on the quantity of tweets, articles, books that we produce, and more on who sets the boundaries of what we’re allowed to say and dare to dream about the role of universities in promoting debate."

I have heard Selina Todd speak and enjoyed her recent book, 'The People: The Rise and Fall of the Working Class, 1910-2010'

Professor Rosa Freedman
Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 16:27

Thank you too Selina Thanks

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