Trans councillor leaves roles after 'threats to life'

[Bespin]

I'm not one for posting threads on here but I feel this is quite a sad position for this person and shows how hard it is to maintain a professional stance on this when you are receiving threats and abuse at the levels that are currently happening on the Internet, in no way am I saying this is gender critical people. But this debate as now got to such a level that it is starting to cost people there livelihoods on both sides of this so called debate.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-tayside-central-45151228

[SturdyEarmuffs]

I hope it will not take a tragedy

ODFOD. Women don't owe anyone snowflake privileges to get away with abusive behaviour less they succumb to "a tragedy". Are you seriously trying to pull this bullshit, on FWR?

Bespin, I've no idea what you think you achieve here, but even I'm surprised you've decided to stoop this low. Read the room, eh?

[Charliethefeminist]

This is the best false flag they can come up with so far

[Bowlofbabelfish]

The outcome I want?

The outcome I want is the law as it is. I don’t want any changes to the EA2010, which protects people with gender reassignment and protects on the basis of sex. I don’t want any ‘rolling back’ of trans people’s rights. They have rights under law to not suffer discrimination etc and I have no wish to remove them.

What I want is no change to the EA. I want the protected characteristic of SEX to be enforced where needed. I do NOT want selfID to come in because it will create conflict with, and make the EA2010 unenforceable in regards to sex.

That’s what I want. Basically the status quo with sex protections allowed to be enforced

[Sarahconnor1]

Is that person a transwoman or a transman

Neither, Gregory is non binary. By attaching that label to themselves Gregory now comes under Stonewalls very broad definition of trans. Despite quite clearly presenting as a (white) male he is now the most oppressed on earth.

Gregory also thinks politics is too male/pale/stale. Ironic.

[Bespin]

SturdyEarmuffs

as I said I'm concerned that someone will get hurt it seems more likely to be someone gender critical as has already happened. if that's my agenda then so be it I'm not here to score points. I don't like Gregor or the things they have said. I think there an ideot. I think there are issues with how it was reported. I linked to it to see the responce it got and how someone attacking is meet with people attacking back.

[womanspeaking]

This person indulged in vicious offensive tirades against women and when called out on it, have used DARVO to (evidently) successfully present themselves as a victim. Unbelievable.

When you work as a 'children's convenor' and a scout leader there have to be some standards in terms of your public discourse and this person failed massively. A simple - 'I'm sorry' would have been the decent response .

[Wanderabout]

my biggest concern is that... a TRA causes serious harm to someone with another assault because they feel violence is justified due to how heated the debate as become. this as the pot to ruin lives. I don't want to shut anyone up I want to keep them safe.

Why would you think a TRA would assault someone because of a debate? Is this a general concern that TRAs have a violent tendency? Or is there someone in particular you are concerned may cause harm? Or is this meant as some kind of threat?

[IncrediblySturdyPyjamas]

Gregory also thinks politics is too male/pale/stale. Ironic

He always was part of the problem, notmpart of the solution - as he himself identified. Funny how they dont volunteer themselves to step down.

[Bespin]

Bowlofbabelfish

so no practical change then, none of the things people have wanted on here that I don't have access to changing rooms, prisons or insert the service here as there are few services that use the existing exemptions and you are ok with that. I think this will be the outcome if I'm honest with a simpler GRC process

[smashyourglasses]

Bespin just doesn't seem to learn.

[SturdyEarmuffs]

Well rest assured you can save your faux concerns bespin. If you have information on a threat against women's safety then take it to the police. Anything else, no one here gives a shit.

[SuburbanRhonda]

On which forum did you try to challenge TRAs about their behaviour? Could you link some replies?

Did you try more than once? Did you try more than one forum?

[IncrediblySturdyPyjamas]

I don't like Gregor or the things they have said. I think there an ideot. I think there are issues with how it was reported. I linked to it to see the responce it got and how someone attacking is meet with people attacking back.

Funny you didnt say that in your original post.
Responding to calling women cunts, is not attacking back, it is calling out calling women cunts. If you consider everything that isnt total capitulation to be an attack, then of course you are going to be sad.

But you don't and will never understand it.

[Bespin]

Wanderabout

in no way is it a threat, to hold a concern that there are people in this debate that have other issues and if we paint people as the enemy in a debate we end up with something like jo cox.

[TimeLady]

Sometimes people have sexual orientation issues rather than gender ones and so are in denial.

Jumping on bandwagons to appear more woke and interesting, comes to mind.

Jeez, it doesn't say much for the calibre of council candidates in Dundee if this numpty got elected

[R0wantrees]

The chrononology is important:

August 1 2018 The Chronicle

"Dundee’s children and families convener has been told to “consider his position” following the fresh discovery of foul and abusive outbursts posted online.

Concerned members of the public have reported numerous examples of North East councillor Gregor Murray directing explicit-laden tirades at users on the news aggregation site Reddit.

Gregor Murray, who identifies as gender non-binary and objects to being referred to with the use of the pronoun “he”, apologised last month for using foul language on Twitter “in anger” following an anti-trans protest at a London Pride event.

The councillor conceded that the words used reflected “badly upon my city and my party”.

The convener was later branded a “disgrace” by party colleague and Kirriemuir and Dean councillor Julie Bell over the remarks.

Dundee City Council leader John Alexander described the language used by the convener on Reddit as “unacceptable” and said he would be discussing the matter with his colleague directly.

The posts were made before the Twitter row unfolded and appear to have no relation to the convener’s Pride march fury and stretch back over weeks and months.

Philip Scott, who also sits on the children and families services committee, said it was “really disappointing to read more of this stuff”.

Philip Scott, depute leader of Dundee City Council’s Conservative group.
He said: “What surprised me is that Councillor Murray hasn’t deleted any of the previous tweets that he posted. You’d think that would be the least you would do.

“I would say that if the councillor can’t temper his language, perhaps it is something he should be considering his position over.

“It’s up to John Alexander but if I was in charge of the group I would probably move him on. It is completely unacceptable.”

Gregor Murray frequently identifies as a Dundee councillor on Reddit and has even made posts discussing at length prominent council initiatives, such as the Waterfront redevelopment.


Gregor Murray and some of his foul-mouthed tweets.
The councillor’s code of conduct states representatives must “respect your colleagues and members of the public and treat them with courtesy at all times when acting as a councillor”, including on social media.

Gregor Murray returned to work on Monday following annual leave but did not respond to a request for comment.

Mr Alexander said: “Any complaints of this nature are, of course, taken seriously and must be given proper consideration.

“I will discuss these matters directly with Councillor Murray and it would be inappropriate to be drawn further on this at this point other than to say the use of language was unacceptable.”

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/697908/childrens-convener-told-consider-your-position-after-further-foul-mouthed-outbursts-discovered-online/

[SturdyEarmuffs]

Wait, what's that I hear? Is that bespin's door slamming as they rush to the police to warn them? About TRA plot to kill a woman? No?

Give it a rest eh? You fool no one here.

[IncrediblySturdyPyjamas]

how hard it is to maintain a professional stance

Bespin you said tha above.

What about his tweets and reddit comments did you find 'professional'?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

No. A simpler GRC process is not what I want. Medical gatekeeping has to stay for that.

I want single sex services to be able to be single sex as they are under law, without them fearing legal action, threats and harassment from activists.

I want anywhere which is currently single sex to stay that way and not fear being vindictively sued or harassed for it.

I do not want any single sex provider or service to have to justify on a case by case basis because this is a cop out and leads to threats, vindictive legal action and harassment by activists (see: Vancouver rape relief.)

I do not want ANYTHING that reduces or compromises child safety brought in, whether on the statute books or by fear of harassment/getting ahead of the law.

I do not want lobby groups to be able to change the DSM and ICD definitions of gender dysphoria.

I do not want affirmative treatment of minors as the standard of care. See safeguarding above.

The law as we have it now should be protecting all these things. So I want the current law enforced.

[Bespin]

SturdyEarmuffs

I would report any concerns I have in a intent as a hope most people would. I post the things I feel are important to me on here and making sure we get through this without hurt is one of them

[R0wantrees]

10/8/2018 The Chronicle (Dundee)
"Children’s convener resigns following row over expletive-laden social media outbursts

Dundee’s children and families convener has resigned following a row over expletive-laden outbursts on social media.

North East councillor Gregor Murray, was blasted as a “disgrace” by a fellow SNP politician after foul tweets and reddit comments were discovered online.

In a letter of resignation accepted by Dundee City Council leader John Alexander, Murray wrote: “As you are aware, the last few months have been extremely tough personally and as a consequence, my own mental wellbeing is not where it should be.

“As well as issues surrounding my personal life, I have also been subjected to a vicious and sustained string of abuse across various social media channels, a small fraction of which you have witnessed.

“This has led me to make a number of wrong judgements in communicating with people who campaign against my fundamental human rights. I have not handled this situation well in the slightest.

“I have used language that is inappropriate for someone in my position, which is causing an unnecessary distraction from the fantastic work that this administration is doing for the city.

“The points that I have been trying to make have been lost due to the ways in which I have expressed them, and I feel as though I am not being a helpful member of your administration or of the LGBTI community.

“Therefore, I believe it is in the best interests of the administration, my constituents, our party and my own health if I took a step back at this time in order to resolve my own issues.”

Council leader John Alexander said he had accepted Murray’s resignation, adding: “I think it’s only right they have apologised.”


www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/dundee/703892/childrens-convener-resigns-following-row-over-expletive-laden-social-media-outbursts

[Wanderabout]

in no way is it a threat, to hold a concern that there are people in this debate that have other issues and if we paint people as the enemy in a debate we end up with something like jo cox.

Jo Cox was a politician who was murdered. What do you mean 'other issues' and 'if we paint people as the enemy in a debate'?

It is not normal to suggest someone is going to get murdered due to a political debate. What is it that makes you say this?

[Bespin]

Bowlofbabelfish

I understand you want that but what happens when service decide they don't want that will campaign them to enforce it even if they dont want to

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

so no practical change then, none of the things people have wanted on here that I don't have access to changing rooms etc

That's the nub of it, isn't it Bespin ?

Women are now saying "No! I don't want ANY kind of man in female spaces. The question is why women are saying that now, when for decades we have barely raised an eyebrow, plucked or otherwise, at the transwoman sharing our single sex spaces.

The answer isn't that women woke up one morning and decided to become less accepting, less nice, less 'womanly'.

The answer is a group of loud, monied, white men scared the shit out of us and we have closed ranks to protect ourselves.

That has left all of those transwomen who used to be accepted/tolerated with nowhere to go... and here you are blaming us, the women, the ones who have been threatened, beaten and steamrollered.

That's why we don't agree with you, why we probably make you feel unwanted, etc. We have been scared. We are scared enough now to revoke any and all niceties, including the fiction that transwomen are women that used to make life so much easier for everyone (if occasionally worrisome for women).

Now we have no bloody idea if the transwoman in our single sex space is genuine, an activist, a piss taker.... and we don't feel the need to find out the hard way. So out you all go.

It would be nice if all the men folk could sort out there own issues and not rely on women to do all the emotional work for them!

[Whwhywhy]

White male oppressed as he is trans.....While not being trans....So it’s okay to go total MRA and call lesbians cunts....... Cos that’s not misogyny or homophobia!

I’m switching off the internet now and hoping it will all go away!