"Feminism is equality"

[MrGHardy]

This is a response by a woman to a man talking about feminism:

"Your understanding is wrong. Where does everyone get this idea that feminism is some kind of for-all happy umbrella? It's for the equality of women vis-a-vis men. And men, Mr. Read, don't get to decide what feminism is."

I have come across this so often recently, where feminism is portrayed as "for equality so it is also for men" etc. and this Twitter user used a good phrase: "some kind of for-all happy umbrella".

I think it's a deliberate misrepresentation of feminism, in order to distract the discussion away from the issues, away from women, and to paint women in a bad light as some sort of female supremacists if they disagree with the idea, feminism is equality for all i.e. also for men. The idea "feminism is for women does not imply it is not for equality" seems also hard for people to understand and is easily misrepresented.

How do you deal with this? If you constantly have to first convince people that feminism is not for men, not a blanket "for-all happy umbrella", it gets very frustrating and distracts from the issue at hand (and instead leads to a debate about what feminism is, and what its goals are and who it is for). Additionally, as a man you are quickly accused of mansplaining (especially by women who for some reason believe that feminism is also for men) or at least asked for a definition which is a) difficult to do for me b) at least in my case necessarily leads to accusations of mansplaining.

oh, it's the mammoth's fault?

well you should have said earlier. we could have wrapped this whole thing up

Again, on what grounds?

Stop it Shooz. This is feminism 101.

Go and read the numerous threads on here that talk about the structural inequality and sexism in male dominated industries and professions.

Go and look at the #MeToo campaign that was characterised by men maintaining their power by threatening and harassing women in their industries.

Go and watch the program no more boys and girls which analysed seven-year-olds and found that the behaviour of adults around them had resulted in the only thing girls thought they could do better than boys is look pretty. (And the only emotion boys could articulate was anger).

Go and look at the results in girls schools and mixed schools. And the take up of stem subjects in the girls only schools. As opposed to mixed. Go and look at the 60% of girls who said they are subjected to sexual harassment at school. And ask yourself why they don't want to be in a class wher they're the only girl. But leap at the subject when they're not.

Go and look at the statistics that show blindly choosing CVs gives you a 50-50 short list mix, when reading the names doesn't.

I would politely suggest that you've just made that up, or, you're just a victim of propaganda.

How about on my 21st birthday the landlord could refuse to serve me a drink in the pub, purely on the grounds of the fact I was female.

Or my husband, on our honeymoon, could have legally raped me. I had no legal recourse whatsoever. And I'm not really very old - it was 1992. And it took FIFTEEN years for the government to change that law. 15 years of mostly men in Parliament deciding that men were entitled to rape their wives.

You're not very good feminist, are you?

fucking mammoths

You appear to be totally dismissing millennia of human evolution where the males tended to adopt certain roles and females tended to adopt certain roles.

What role did men take that made them more likely to become IT professionals and women to be better at data entry?

Why is it that so often these gendered employments are culturally specific?

.

Mammoths have a lot to answer for

I've come to the conclusion that it's a big fat lie, and it is promoted precisely because it serves the purpose of maintaining a status quo that 'feminists' like you are only too happy to uphold

It's been "promoted" ever since humans became humans. The first cavemen didn't think "hang on, if we go out hunting sabre tooth tigers whilst the women look after the younger members of the tribe then at some point in the future us men will have it really easy, we'll never even have to wash the dishes"

11 year old now this!

Oh god, are the sabre toothed tigers in on it too?

shifty, dentally gifted bastards

i never trusted them

Shooz This is why you should research and write the 3000 word essay on the history of the women's liberation movement in Britain! You will discover things that you wouldn't have thought possible

Kittens, I'm fully versed and educated in the struggle women have faced. Somehow this conversation is now about what has happened rather than what is happening.

I think there is good reason why only 7% of British women identify themselves as feminist.

Ah c'mon

Enough of the mammoth hate !!

I still don't get why men need equal access to PAP tests or the women's bathroom. Or maternity pay, or somewhere to breastfeed.

I didnt get the promotion i was due

Because i was pregnant...in 1998

I think there is good reason why only 7% of British women identify themselves as feminist.

Go on then. Enlighten us. You identify as a feminist, why do you identify as one, but those women don't?

Shooz. Women have the babies and do the breastfeeding. The babies takes at best, a day or so. Plus recovery. It doesn't last for 40 years.

You can breastfeed anywhere. You may recall, back in that sexist mind of yours, women demanding breastfeeding protocols? Now you know why.

And yes of course some women want to raise the children. Some women can't possibly afford to. Some men want to raise children.

The clue is we don't have much choice at the moment because of the structural inequality that says women should do it. All of it. For ever, and that includes making all the food, cleaning the house, taking care of elderly parents, writing the Christmas cards, and cleaning the bogs!

For free.

I had to call acas to get the maternity pay I was due. The employer didn't want to pay it. Oh well.

Oh and sack me during maternity leave because they thought I wouldn't come back.

You identify as a feminist

Yes, because I believe in equality of the sexes. That's what I thought feminism was. In a few short hours I've learned that it's not really about equality. It's more than that.

I've denounced myself. I'm just a plain on libertarian now.

When those men were gone for months on end, harvesting mammoths..

Did they just not wipe their own arses or what? Did they not clean the animal before they ate it?

but you were a radical feminist ten minutes ago!

The clue is we don't have much choice at the moment because of the structural inequality that says women should do it

That structure has been around for 200,000 years or so.

To the two women who will be murdered next week by their partners, and the 100 who will be raped - remember its down to your life choices.

I've denounced myself. I'm just a plain on libertarian now

Do we have a libertarian board?

If we do i think we should pop on and tell them they are doing liberting wrong and there is no need for it any more

when I wanted to go part time after my first child my employer suggested that I might like to also take a 10% cut in my hourly rate in addition to the pro-rata-ed reduction in salary.

that was 2011