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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

"Feminism is equality"

226 replies

MrGHardy · 09/08/2018 17:06

This is a response by a woman to a man talking about feminism:

"Your understanding is wrong. Where does everyone get this idea that feminism is some kind of for-all happy umbrella? It's for the equality of women vis-a-vis men. And men, Mr. Read, don't get to decide what feminism is."

I have come across this so often recently, where feminism is portrayed as "for equality so it is also for men" etc. and this Twitter user used a good phrase: "some kind of for-all happy umbrella".

I think it's a deliberate misrepresentation of feminism, in order to distract the discussion away from the issues, away from women, and to paint women in a bad light as some sort of female supremacists if they disagree with the idea, feminism is equality for all i.e. also for men. The idea "feminism is for women does not imply it is not for equality" seems also hard for people to understand and is easily misrepresented.

How do you deal with this? If you constantly have to first convince people that feminism is not for men, not a blanket "for-all happy umbrella", it gets very frustrating and distracts from the issue at hand (and instead leads to a debate about what feminism is, and what its goals are and who it is for). Additionally, as a man you are quickly accused of mansplaining (especially by women who for some reason believe that feminism is also for men) or at least asked for a definition which is a) difficult to do for me b) at least in my case necessarily leads to accusations of mansplaining.

OP posts:
BettyDuMonde · 10/08/2018 13:46

A deal?

Make it 5000.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:46

Men dont need equal treatment to women as they never miscarry

But that's not the fault of the patriarchy is it? That's nature.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:47

The deal was aimed at Kittens, not you, Betty.

littlbrowndog · 10/08/2018 13:48

Spend that free time on google then

littlbrowndog · 10/08/2018 13:48

That’s u told Betty

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 13:49

Thats not even a question!!

And there is no ???

Youre being marked down and you havent even started the essay!!

BettyDuMonde · 10/08/2018 13:50

Shooz obviously needs to write a chapter on feminism as a collective.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:51

That's not even a question

It was a poorly worded question but still a valid one.

Kittens proposed the essay, I'd like to negociate the terms of the deal with her directly please.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:53

Shooz obviously needs to write a chapter on feminism as a collective

I will included a few paragraphs on how divided that collective can be.

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 13:53

Yes there is obviously no subjugation of women when they outperformed boys at school, took more places at university yet still manage to somehow NOT be fairly represented in top positions in practically every company and organisation.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 13:54

You spdont seriously think kittens would read it do you Grin

And its not a question badly worded or otherwise

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 13:54

I might be being mean there

Maybe kittens is interested in what you have to say

Maybe...

CardsforKittens · 10/08/2018 13:54

I'm reasonably serious: if you put the work in, I'll engage.

Two things though: to make an effective critique you really need quite a bit more than 1000 words. That's why I said 3000.

Also, the topic you've suggested would need quite a bit of historical context to do it justice, and some experience of sociology. It's also quite narrow. If you want to educate yourself about feminism in Britain you should take a broader approach and probably a historical perspective since most people are at least generally familiar with historical methods.

So if you work on the topic I originally proposed you will have the opportunity to learn about the development of feminism, which informs today's feminist debates. You might still disagree with radical feminists but you will do so from an informed position.

I'm game if you are.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 10/08/2018 13:56

I see the need for men and women to be treated equally..

You want women to kill 2-3 men a week?

Interesting.

I'll chat with the other feminists and see what we can come up with.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 13:56

Oh that is very kind of you kittens

JasmineByTheSea · 10/08/2018 13:56

I’m trying to think of a possible scenario when the issue could arise. It seems far removed from the ordinary issues women face. Aside from academics, who has regular discussions about the definition of feminism? Most women I know are feminist in their actions and in the many stances they adopt. The need to discuss the theory rarely arises.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:57

yet still manage to somehow NOT be fairly represented in top positions in practically every company and organisation

That's down to life choices rather than lack of an opportunity.

UpstartCrow · 10/08/2018 13:58

Why are businesses structured that way, instead of around the people who work for them?

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 13:59

I'm game if you are

I'm certainly interested and will give it some thought.

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas · 10/08/2018 14:00

That's down to life choices rather than lack of an opportunity.

How so?

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 14:01

Why are businesses structured that way, instead of around the people who work for them

It's called Capitalism

Capitalism doesn't give a shit if you're a guy or a girl, capitalism only cares if you deliver.

DrNuShooz · 10/08/2018 14:01

How so

I will answer, just have to pop out to the shops, be about half an hour or so.

UpstartCrow · 10/08/2018 14:03

LOL! OK.

Come back when you have to take a morning after pill at the chemist instead of being allowed to take it home, and as a result you miscarry in a public space.

CardsforKittens · 10/08/2018 14:04

I'm certainly interested and will give it some thought.

Great! I think you might really enjoy it if you decide to go ahead.

Datun · 10/08/2018 14:06

It's interesting how men who have children and raise a family and whose parents grow elderly are still the ones who get to 'deliver'.

I wonder how they manage to do that...?