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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What is with all the thread zapping?

139 replies

LaSquirrel · 06/08/2018 14:48

I can understand that this one ("DH and Jess Bradley") was iffy, and based on unsubstantiated hearsay.

But this one ("have you ever doubted your views" had been going for quite some time, was almost at 800 comments, and then zapped. When I asked around about it (I was just about to settle in and read it finally) women did not think it was 'troll hunting'.

Basically, it does not seem right to let it go to 800 then kill it. Particularly because it throws out all the work that women have put into it - a kind of devaluing women's work issue. If there was an issue with troll hunting, why didn't the mods jump in and put a stop to it? Why let it run so long (and it went for a week or so I think) then kill it?

What say you @MNHQ?

OP posts:
CoolCarrie · 07/08/2018 12:03

I agree that MNHQ are far to quick on the zap the thread button at the moment.

CoolCarrie · 07/08/2018 12:03

The cop out seems to be always “not in the spirit “ !

CoolCarrie · 07/08/2018 12:06

The Panorama thread was a prefect example, as was the thread about “ “ travellers “ invading a poster’s town.

R0wantrees · 07/08/2018 12:08

THere was a situation recently where a poster had looked up Edward Lord (following newspaper article etc), in Wiki.

Edward Lord's now preferred pronouns were not recorded there and so a MN poster unintentionally mispronouned / misgendered Lord.

Edward Lord may prefer to be referred to as 'they/them' but reading their history and seeing their photograph etc is a person to be sanctioned for believing they are male and using he/him?

Similarly, if quoting an article, to what extent must the person quoting do due dilligence before posting, & what exactly is due dilligence? It becomes an increasingly impossible requirement as transitions takes place at specific times- there is no current uptodate database of individual's genders or preferred pronouns and even if there were, it wouldn't likely be searchable by a 'deadname' for obvious reasons.

Playing forward the possibilities forward demonstrates the issues.

VickyEadie · 07/08/2018 12:08

The word "goady" is often used in places where it seems to be convenient.

BettyDuMonde · 07/08/2018 12:09

The panorama thread did have one post that was problematic (not malicious, just gossipy and you wouldn’t want to publish any proof that may or may not be available on a parenting website Grin) so it could probably have just been pruned?

But it was a real-time thread responding to the live broadcast, so I guess that makes modding particularly challenging?

BettyDuMonde · 07/08/2018 12:15

Agree with R0wan re: pronouns - there are an absolute heap of possibilities so it’s increasingly impossible to comply with rules.

I’ve taken to using full name and then abbreviating to initials. It doesn’t read as very friendly though - I guess that’s the problem with lots of ‘correct’ speak? The more formal the rules, the less welcoming the environment created by those rules?

Sometimes I really want to temper a tense situation with a joke, it daren’t, in case it’s misconstrued. This leaves me looking like a far more terse and strict person than I actually am - and presumably does the same to many others?

This is likely bad for the debate overall (both off and on Mumsnet), as we are losing our human-ness.

CardsforKittens · 07/08/2018 12:17

but then decided I'd said something that implied the person was a man.

This is, in my view, particularly problematic. It's one thing to insist we make an effort to use a person's preferred pronouns. But there are times when it's crucial to the debate that we draw attention to male violent behaviour - for example when a trans woman is accused or convicted of rape, or has publicly used misogynistic threats. In such cases it has to be legitimate to question the extent to which an individual's gender reassignment should be accepted. I'm sure there are other examples.

Bespin · 07/08/2018 12:18

again just to point out this is not speakers corner while this forum supports freedom of speech that does not nessesary mean they are going to give it too you it's a private forum after all and is here to make a profit for its owners and pay its staff. it will do what it thinks is the best thing to maximise that and if that means take away a threads then it will do it.

R0wantrees · 07/08/2018 12:22

Mumsnet supports civilised and respectful speech Bespin . There is nuance in that intention.

Bespin · 07/08/2018 12:50

totally and they have defined what they think that is and some people think it dies not apply to them and decide to just post what they want then complain when it is taken down at least people don't seem to be banned as much these days.

R0wantrees · 07/08/2018 12:59

MN said they were committed to free speech & produced new rules ,

"To try to create a more civil and mutually respectful conversation"

The guidance concludes:
'Mumsnet has thrived on being a place where people can find intelligent and differing opinions and enter into civilised discussion. This is an issue which has tested our ability to discuss it to the absolute limit and it’s no surprise to me that there are very few sites or publications where it’s still possible to do so. But we fundamentally believe that with a bit of an effort all round then we can allow all voices to be heard and, hopefully, even move towards some form of acceptable and constructive compromise."

Original poster
LaSquirrel · 07/08/2018 13:03

even move towards some form of acceptable and constructive compromise

So compromise for our side is in agreeing to maybe just a bit of erasure or erosion of our rights?
Somehow, I don't see myself compromising on that.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 07/08/2018 13:20

I think there have been considerable compromises made on this board by many posters.
On other parts of MN exchanges seem to be more robust when contentious comments are made.
Many posters are going to a lot of effort to ensure their sentences are acceptable.
The misgendering /mispronouning is going to become increasingly difficult though, particularly when reports are made not by the individual who is involved with the exchange on the thread but on behalf of someone else by someone else who is watching threads in order to police them. Also, it will be incredibly difficult for many people (for all sorts of reasons) to introduce new pronoun usage.

Original poster
LaSquirrel · 07/08/2018 13:33

Are MN still taking reports from Twitter, and outsiders (ie non members)? Because that is more than a little crazy - all other forums that I know of, you have to be a forum member to report a comment or thread.

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 07/08/2018 13:55

I don't think the Twitter report account is running but there's still a lot of Twitter watching and discussing which posts/ threads to report.

I'm sure MN will be getting reports from many members who don't engage on the board but report regularly from different perspectves. It would be interesting to know if MN are analysing this though.

IDontEatFriedTurtle · 07/08/2018 15:35

Also please don't @ people, it sends them a message every time you do it and is generally considered poor etiquette.(Even I know that and I'm not exactly Miss Manners)

Surely you must be able to edit that in your settings, so you don';t get an email? I don't think @ is poor manners or they wouldn't have given it to us an option? Hmm I prefer to be atted as otherwise you miht miss that someone responded to you.

LeiaTheSlaya · 07/08/2018 15:48

It would be interesting to know if MN are analysing this though.

It would make interesting reading that's for sure.

Who was it that got the stats on number increase on FWR visits? Maybe this could be part of a follow up?

AccioWine · 07/08/2018 15:50

I was wondering how many of the reports/ complaints were coming via Twitter, but thought that felt a bit paranoid. Maybe I should dig out that tin foil hat again...

thebewilderness · 09/08/2018 01:58

@ing people is considered bad manners when they are on the thread having a conversation with you.
Do you normally text someone while you are talking to them?

thebewilderness · 09/08/2018 02:02

@IDontEatFriedTurtle

Do you normally text people or tap them on the shoulder to get their attention while you are having a conversation with them?
I do not think so.
We @ people who are not currently involved in the thread.
It probably would never have developed as an issue if MRAs had not used it as a means to harass women on FWR. Kinda like a barking dog.

IDontEatFriedTurtle · 09/08/2018 09:39

No, but I very rarely have 15 conversations at once either in RL. And I never let the person I am talking to continue to chat away while I ignore them to have an entirely different conversation about BLW. So it's not really the same at all. If you only post on FWR and you follow every thread, you may well be able to keep up with every time a person responds to you but I don't and lots of other people don't either. I'd prefer someone actually let me know they are talking to me if you hadn't actually @me just now, I'd have no idea you responded as I 'd already stopped paying attention to the thread.

R0wantrees · 09/08/2018 09:48

IDontEatFriedTurtle

There's an option above to see the comments just of threads you've started or contributed to, also to mark threads to follow. Its a useful function.

Talk: I'm on / I'm watching / I started

IDontEatFriedTurtle · 09/08/2018 10:05

Thanks Rowan, I use tio but the point I was making is I might comment on 10 or 20 threads a day, but I don't read every post after in case someone responds to me. I dip in and out to tell people they are very unreasonable and then fuck off unless I am atted

AngryAttackKittens · 09/08/2018 10:08

This is not AIBU, and no, I'm not going to faff around with my settings just because someone wants the general protocol followed by most people on this particular board adjusted for their convenience.