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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

What is with all the thread zapping?

139 replies

LaSquirrel · 06/08/2018 14:48

I can understand that this one ("DH and Jess Bradley") was iffy, and based on unsubstantiated hearsay.

But this one ("have you ever doubted your views" had been going for quite some time, was almost at 800 comments, and then zapped. When I asked around about it (I was just about to settle in and read it finally) women did not think it was 'troll hunting'.

Basically, it does not seem right to let it go to 800 then kill it. Particularly because it throws out all the work that women have put into it - a kind of devaluing women's work issue. If there was an issue with troll hunting, why didn't the mods jump in and put a stop to it? Why let it run so long (and it went for a week or so I think) then kill it?

What say you @MNHQ?

OP posts:
Melamin · 06/08/2018 16:12

If you want to reply to a point, you just need to put a quote in bold or italics.

@ is used sparingly, if you need someone to join in and they haven't been around. They might be on the loo or something.

SarahCarer · 06/08/2018 16:16

I have also used the @ lots of times. I hate unwritten rules and I often fall foul of etiquette here. I have also been dealt a pretty harsh hand after starting the odd thread and I watched how Farfrom got herself trapped in a similar way. Many posters here are very cynical and suspicious, and as aggressive as you can be without being actually threatening. But even when the attacks are aimed at me I know that, in the end, those rottweilers have my back.

LangCleg · 06/08/2018 16:18

Ok, for what it's worth, I remember the OP of the doubt yourselves thread as someone who used to post pro-genderist positions on FWR a while ago and had clearly come back. So I didn't think they were trolling. I did doubt their motives because of their strange lack of clarity and worrying continued conflation of separate issues and said so - I don't regard that as troll hunting. MNHQ - is it? That said, there were quite a few posts wondering if OP was a man or a troll or or or. It's a shame the thread went entirely because there were some great posts on it. I would have preferred to have seen the direct troll hunting accusations deleted instead.

FloralBunting · 06/08/2018 16:24

Yeah, well, I will admit I was in no mood to suffer fools this morning and got very cheesed off towards the end of my involvement there, but it was because I had taken the time to try and answer the blurry initial question, and then attempted to explain why the subsequent sporadic, sealioning posts may have been viewed with a jaundiced eye and all I got in response was more sealioning, and the OP started asking the initial question again of people who had already answered just to see if they were sure.

It was goady behaviour. While I am quite happy to say I didn't think they were a troll, I took the time to explain why some had suspected they were, and their responses actually left me completely doubting their good faith in the first place.

CardsforKittens · 06/08/2018 16:26

It's a shame the thread went entirely because there were some great posts on it. I would have preferred to have seen the direct troll hunting accusations deleted instead.

My thoughts exactly.
The OP was unusually inarticulate but I didn't get 'troll' from that. It read to me like someone losing an argument with themselves.

And there were some really good posts. I always think it's a shame to delete people's carefully considered and perfectly civil responses just because a minority miss the mark re the posting guidelines.

LangCleg · 06/08/2018 16:36

My general objection to that OP was that if any GC feminist on FWR had conflated sex offending with the trans population as the OP did multiple times on that thread, they would have been deleted, given a strike and warned not to do it again. I was made to feel very uncomfortable about that aspect of the thread.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 06/08/2018 20:41

My general objection to that OP was that if any GC feminist on FWR had conflated sex offending with the trans population as the OP did multiple times on that thread, they would have been deleted, given a strike and warned not to do it again. I was made to feel very uncomfortable about that aspect of the thread

Exactly what i thought

AccioWine · 06/08/2018 20:51

And the Man Friday thread has gone. The OP throws some mud and runs away. And the thread is deleted. Time and again.

This MO is getting very boring.

Doobigetta · 06/08/2018 21:08

What was the Man Friday thread? Could anyone summarise? Or was it all rubbish? I clicked as it was deleted.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 06/08/2018 21:12

Man friday allegedly consorting with homophobes

Basically ...

FarFrom · 06/08/2018 21:29

I didn't want it gone. But I did finally snap and after days of not reporting began reporting all of the insults, attacks and assumptions about me. MN response was that there were so many personal attacks and troll hunting posts that it wasn't salvageable. I imagine that will give very few of you pause for thought.

louiseaaa · 06/08/2018 21:32

For those us us who don't post very often it's a shame that when we finally de--lurk to actually answer a question in good faith the thread gets zapped, but heyho. 👁

GeorgeFayne · 06/08/2018 21:35

One of the deleted threads had to do with "peak transing" (again!) with a link to, I believe, this individual's page: medium.com/@cassiebrighter/what-do-we-do-about-women-with-a-penis-70e783fb952e

If you didn't check this link out, it's quite disturbing. Further, how is it a "pile on" to say how outraged reading this makes me? How is this not in the "spirit" of MN? VERY SAD to see the direction MN is going. We have nothing like this in the States. Looks like communication and discussion is well on its way to being squelched for you, my friends, as well...

Ereshkigal · 06/08/2018 21:38

Cassie Brighter the author is posting on MN so probably reported it all as PAs.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 06/08/2018 21:41

i agree louise

AngryAttackKittens · 06/08/2018 21:45

In general I think entire threads being zapped should be avoided - regardless of your perspective on the issues surely it's better for everyone to be able to see what everyone else is saying.

RoseAndRose · 06/08/2018 21:45

MNHQ have been quite clear about their deletion policy.

I'm sure there will be other sites that will host what is not allowed here. Ther internet is huge - so it's really unlikely you wouldn't find a wecolming place. But in the unlikely event you don't, then start your own: 'if you build it, they will come'

GeorgeFayne · 06/08/2018 21:46

Gotcha! The interesting thing about Cassie is that I don't totally disagree with everything Cassie states. Cassie actually makes some excellent points. I also think that Cassie is very clear from the outset that individuals who don't believe transwomen are women should probably just not read any further. (Obviously, I didn't heed the advice.) But the paragraph about how a transwoman's penis changes and carries different energy literally made me nauseated.

SarahCarer · 06/08/2018 21:50

People do pile on though, very often. And sometimes it feels like they start high fiving each other to show their solidarity against the person they are disagreeing with, and having fun in the argument whilst at the same time saying the pile on is totally justifiable due to the very serious nature of the outsiders argument/claim/mistake. It doesn't show us in the best light tbh. Whilst typing this I am already thinking of the likely responses; I'm appealing to female socialisation. I'm asking people to be nice. Try asking MRAs not to enjoy the fight etc. But I would never step foot in a male dominated forum. And on this one I'll take the highs with the lows and appreciate some very clever and insightful posters who also have a tendency towards hostility and aggro. I do have a fairly open mind and very often suspend judgment, including when people feel a lot stronger about something than I do. I consider their perspective to be every bit as valid as my own.

VickyEadie · 06/08/2018 21:57

People do pile on though, very often. And sometimes it feels like they start high fiving each other to show their solidarity against the person they are disagreeing with, and having fun in the argument whilst at the same time saying the pile on is totally justifiable due to the very serious nature of the outsiders argument/claim/mistake.

This forum is called "Feminist chat" - it's not badged as the Oxford Union, wherein any thread must contain equal numbers of pros and contras.

The 'pile on' thread (sic) contained a link to some extraordinary claims and ideas, which are informative of some of the views of some trans people, apparently. As I've said elsewhere, if MN think it's a "pile on" they should just stop further comments; deletion looks very much like censorship to me.

GeorgeFayne · 06/08/2018 21:59

Rose
You're probably correct that there is a demand for discussion forums that would allow gender critical conversation. Most of us, though, are busy women. I'm a working mom, and I certainly don't have the time or skills to create and host such a website. MN was such a comfort to discover that I'm not alone in my concerns and feelings on this matter.

I do think that civility and respect are important, though so is honesty. I know striking that balance is hard.

ShirleyPhallus · 06/08/2018 22:07

The Dr Christian thread has just gone up in smoke - due to speculation around his private life

I posted one post of gossip, but otherwise it was ALL from his twitter feed / published articles about him.

What gives MNHQ?

SarahCarer · 06/08/2018 22:11

This forum is called "Feminist chat" - it's not badged as the Oxford Union, wherein any thread must contain equal numbers of pros and contras.

Yep "chatting" is definitely what these threads look like. Everyone having a good old chinwag.

I'm not justifying the thread deletions. But contrary opinions, doubts and questions are part of what make this forum interesting and help shape our ideas. Yet we treat those who introduce these elements with such hostility, scorn and derision whilst actually often enjoying the discussion they have introduced or finding it useful for reinforcing ideas. And then we just get a zillion and one people coming on to "ask a question" about why people think TWAW and what they are actually doing is fawning at the groupthink.

FloralBunting · 06/08/2018 22:12

Sorry, but although zapping the entire thread is a bit heavy handed, the comments about his sex life were really unnecessary.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 06/08/2018 22:12

shirley

Not that i give a shiny shit about the 'good' Doctor

But i do find it interesting that there is thread after thread after thread after thread discussing the private lives of people in the public eye

And they dont seem to be deleted

To be fair i didnt look at the aforementioned thread due to the lack of shiny shits so it may have been completely beyond the pale