What is with all the thread zapping?

[LaSquirrel]

I can understand that this one ("DH and Jess Bradley") was iffy, and based on unsubstantiated hearsay.

But this one ("have you ever doubted your views" had been going for quite some time, was almost at 800 comments, and then zapped. When I asked around about it (I was just about to settle in and read it finally) women did not think it was 'troll hunting'.

Basically, it does not seem right to let it go to 800 then kill it. Particularly because it throws out all the work that women have put into it - a kind of devaluing women's work issue. If there was an issue with troll hunting, why didn't the mods jump in and put a stop to it? Why let it run so long (and it went for a week or so I think) then kill it?

What say you @MNHQ?

If anyone still has the links to the deleted threads (if you have commented on them, pick up the link from 'threads I am on') and can copy "the reasons" here, that would be good. Also if you can confirm they got blitzed within the last 24 hours.

This is a disturbing pattern.

Someone evidently got back from holiday today.

The deleted thread about Cassie Brighter's article, mentioned earlier: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3326258-You-know-when-you-think-you-couldnt-peak-any-more

"Message from MNHQ: We think this is just becoming a bit of a pile on - and not really in the spirit, so we've taken the thread down."

We are not allowed to talk about Panorama any more either

I'm not sure what HQ consider "troll hunting" to consist of and what they'd like people to do when they think they do have a troll on their hands.

I think they want us to report them so they cal determine if they are pbp.
When a person announces that they disagree with Feminism on the FWR board then makes the thread all about them and how they are being treated they are pretty obviously trolling FWR but not a troll by MNHQ definition.
If we take the bait they are chumming the water with then we are troll hunting. Truth is that whole segment could be deleted without losing the value of the thread but that takes more effort than we are worth.

Yes Incredibly- what is so impossible is to debate and discuss without being personally horrible. My thread could easily have stayed- but you seem to think that the personal bullying adds something?

I think they want us to report them so they cal determine if they are pbp

Yes i agree, it seems to happen a lot

I don't understand why, i i got banned id just think fuck it. I would pnt keep coming back!

Truth is that whole segment could be deleted without losing the value of the thread but that takes more effort than we are worth.

I agree. It shows how much the regulars here are valued.

I agree. It shows how much the regulars here are valued.

There is another way to look at it. Posters/lurkers tend not to like entire threads being zapped. MNHQ may consider the looming threat of thread wipeout to be the most effective way to motivate posters to err on the side of caution when responding, in order to preserve the thread.

It doesn't have to have come from an authoritarian "do as you are told/we don't value you" place. They may perceive a sharp increase in pro-actively self moderating posters to be their best chance of avoiding having to make hard choices. Because it is attracting a lot of outside attention and possibly ominous rumblings about legal action/interference with advertisers.

Even legal action/police involvement that has no hope of being followed through and culminating in a bad outcome for MN costs time, money and energy to manage. Advertisers being scared off has obvious implications for the site as a whole.

It could be getting closer to a point where the sub section, from a business perspective, has to be considered more trouble than can be justified. And maybe they want to try something more "robust" to ward off a need to just close this section down as part of a plan to better protect the future of the whole site.

And another one bites the dust - because 'misgendering' is apparently worse than men threatening women. Wow. Must check out some porn to make sure I know how to suck cock.

Actually I'm glad that last one went as I did a quick search on the op to see if they were brand new and they were both vulnerable and pretty identifiable. People - always remember that the public can search against your username, see all your posts and join the dots.

Was it a name change though? I only got as far as the first page and then it went 'poof' (note, meaning in a puff of smoke, not a homophobic slur).

The op had recently nc but what I saw was ime identifiable even from a quick search which showed a few recent posts. My concern was for the op in this instance.

Lately I just think over-zealous right-on mods, and that they're young hence know it all re what we should and shouldn't be talking about

The op had recently nc but what I saw was ime identifiable even from a quick search which showed a few recent posts. My concern was for the op in this instance

Oh right. I was just at the 'oh my Goddess is this for real' stage when it got zapped - I can't even remember the poster's name - so I do take your point.

Where are places that we can talk about all of this? Do they exist?

Thing is, we also need public space to talk about all this so that others will read and take part...

I agree, but a public space where we can speak without fear of censorship.
I will never call someone by a gender that they are not and that means I cannot freely discuss such important issues on here.

cesira

You made some excellent posts on one of the disapparated threads - I hope you will reuse the content, either in another thread or a blog post somewhere? Too good to just lose.

Just for the record, on the thread deleted within the last few hours.

^Message from MNHQ: Hi all,
We're taking this down because of the misgendering in the first post, which goes against our latest moderation guidelines, here www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy.^

There were a lot of things wrong on that thread, particularly the hoard of new genderists, and the concern it was too identifying for the OP, but misgendering? Really? The OP was understandably a bit rattled, but her 'crime' was 'misgendering'.

World gone mad.

As for the suggestions of new, public, but uncensored place - it looks like something we need to address.

Because the rate of thread deletion going on, is horrifying. I am making a note of them here, but likely they will delete this one when it becomes embarrassing - they have not responded at all as to their rationale.

BettyDuMonde

Thank you ! I would if I could remember what I said. ADHD and dyslexia makes writing impulsive thoughts (that I get easily distracted from) down quite challenging.

All I remember is that it made a sort of sense to me when it was flowing out, but the details have buggered off now other things are crowding my head. My baby is 18 today. I am celebrating managing to bring him up to adulthood in one piece (and very good at housework and cooking ! Doing my bit for future womankind!!) and having an existential crisis about impending empty nest syndrome and not being able to tell what to do anymore.

Head can't decide which one it should concentrate on so there's a really confusing thought party going on up there. If stuff does come back in dribs and drabs once things settle down upstairs I'd certainly welcome the opportunity to mull over them and other ideas again.

I don't understand why a 'misgendering' issue in the OP can't be edited, especially when a thread has run on for some time.

(Im not talking specifically about a recent thread)

If the misgendering is deliberately intended to cause offence / goad or not in good faith etc then that's something very different.

This was the reason given for the deleted thread that I started following Lisa Muggeridge's Twitter suspension. It was confused further by a suggestion that the issue was I had linked to an article which had misgendering in it (I don't know which).

Given that increasing numbers of people are identifying as non-binary as well as other genders & with a high number of possible pronouns, Im not sure where this will lead to in terms of the ability to discuss.

There have been threads recently where MN have been happy to edit titles when asked.

It seems to relate to who's complained and on what grounds. I had a post deleted and they said I'd misgendered someone. When I pointed out in reply that I certainly had not (I'd used the person's initials throughout), they accepted this, but then decided I'd said something that implied the person was a man.

You can be deleted for the inference a complainer draws from a comment, it seems.

Given that increasing numbers of people are identifying as non-binary as well as other genders & with a high number of possible pronouns, Im not sure where this will lead to in terms of the ability to discuss.

Excellent point R0wan