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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DD2s ‘friends’ have decided she’s trans

83 replies

MaitlandGirl · 05/08/2018 04:44

She’s not - she wears trousers to school as it’s winter and too cold to leave the house at 7am in a skirt, doesn’t wear make up as she has stress induced excema on her face, ties her hair up in a ‘man bun’ as it’s ridiculously out of control otherwise and wears Dr Martens as it’s too cold to wear her converse.

All of these examples have lead her supposedly pro-feminist ‘friends’ to decide she’s trans and when she tried to put them right they decided she was in denial and reported her to the pastoral team at school for urgent counselling.

I’ve spent her entire life telling her that being a woman doesn’t mean she has to follow the societal norm and slap on the makeup, have straightened/highlighted hair and wear skirts half way up her thighs and now, because of the strong pro-trans movement across social media, she’s again being told she’s not a ‘real’ woman.

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 05/08/2018 04:53

I hope they are able to do something about the children and adults who are harassing anyone who fails to comply with their rigid sex stereotypes.
I guess at this point we can just hope that the adults recognize the children are being harassed for failure to comply with sex role stereotypes.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 05/08/2018 05:06

When did our gender roles narrow so much that ordinary clothes define our personhood?

I'm wearing jodphurs, boots and a hoody today. I wear jeans and boots most days; it's been months since I wore a skirt. I often have my hair tied up in a bun. Yet, in the words of Sojourner Truth, am I not a woman too?

When I was young my mum told me I walked like a farmer because I liked to stride about, there was nothing delicate about my steps. Now I have some acreage to stride about in, I'm grateful for my length of stride. But even in muddy gumboots, I'm still a woman.

I am sorry for the pressure young girls face to fit in to some conventional idea of femininity. And I'd be so angry with her friends, except that they're only playing out the nonsense they see on social media.

You are doing a good job, teaching her that being a woman is not about appearance.

There's a really good thread on here within the last couple of weeks called, I think, "Brilliant woman", which had lots of examples of women going their own way and doing their own thing, in the face of conventions. Maybe your daughter might find their stories encouraging.

Women have pretty much always worked and had to wear practical clothes to work in. The rise of the über feminine ideal is, I think, and expression of cultural anxiety, and as such, neither real nor stable (I hope).

Your daughter sounds like an excellent and sensible young person. Long may she stomp in her RMs.

TransplantsArePlants · 05/08/2018 05:34

I would try getting her to take the piss a bit. Tell them her mum wears trousers all the time - is she trans too?

LazyTuesdayAfternoon · 05/08/2018 05:39

I think this sort of thing is what will eventually break down this current nonsense.

ICJump · 05/08/2018 05:44

Gosh DMs make you trans? I better tell my 14 year old self.

I feel sorry your daughter is being bullied. Because that’s what’s happening her friends are bullying her. Can you talk to the school?

TransplantsArePlants · 05/08/2018 05:48

And yes - if they are repeatedly saying the same ridiculous/critical things to her, which they know annoy or upset her - they are bullying her

RabbitsAreTasty · 05/08/2018 06:48

That it is straightforward bullying.

It is shaming her for not conforming. "You are totally a man Amanda "

I would complain to the school. Make sure they stamp on it.

MaitlandGirl · 05/08/2018 07:01

I feel as if I’ve been at the school every week this year for various reasons and as she’s only got a few weeks to go she doesn’t want me to create more fuss.

The counselor was great and asked her if there was anything DD2 wanted to talk to her about and happily accept d that the only issue DD2 has is generalised worry and anxiety about her HSC and whether she’d get onto her degree course next year.

Her ‘friends’ seem so desperate for DD2 to be trans - they say things like “you can tell us, we’ll still love you” and “it’s ok to be trans you know”. They also want her to join the LGBT group at school, which she did but as an ally as I’m bi and I’m marrying my female partner next year.

I feel awful for her as all I get from what her friends are saying is ‘you’re not good enough’ and who she is as a person isn’t enough of a young woman.

Sometimes I really hate other people’s teenagers.

OP posts:
Lovemusic33 · 05/08/2018 07:09

Your R's sounds like me as a teen, I wore trousers, dm's, never wore make up and kept my hair simple. Back then there wasn't all this obsession with Trans and gender. I'm 100% a woman, I just don't comply with the norm. I can wear a dress when I want too, can wear make up if I want too, bit I decide not too as I opt for comfort and I have my own look.

Being called Trans because you don't dress girly is just crazy. I hope school sort these issues out and your daughter can be herself without being judged. She sounds like an amazing young lady.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 05/08/2018 07:21

Help your DD have some words to make a stand.

‘I’m a girl. Do you think all girls have to conform to 1950’s gender stereotypes?

CholloDeNombre · 05/08/2018 07:25

This is straight up bullying in the guise of acceptance. Is your dd ok? Will she be able to shake these 'friends' off when she leaves school?

Peanutbuttercups21 · 05/08/2018 07:30

This is bullying

It's the "friends" who could do with some counselling

Idiots

howlsmovingcastle84 · 05/08/2018 07:40

My sister spent the majority of her teenage years in DMs, heavy metal t-shirts and army surplus clothing. Back then we called it having a personality.

VaguelyAware · 05/08/2018 07:43

They're bullying her, surely. Does the school not have an anti-bullying policy. I thought trans was based on one's own lived experience - i.e. you can only decide it for yourself. If they are collectively attempting to coerce your DD, whether through malice or ignorance of her true feelings, they're still telling her that her actual feelings don't matter. It seems more likely to be the case that they've either decided that she needs to perform more femininity in order to be accepted as a girl, or they don't like that her lack of feminine performance highlights the frailty of this part the trans agenda - by which I mean that sometimes people are perceived to be trans simply because they don't perform their sex/ gender roles.

LizzieSiddal · 05/08/2018 07:49

Her “friends” are picking on her and bullying her.

She needs new friends.

DuggeesWoggle · 05/08/2018 07:53

I know you say your daughter is leaving soon and you don't want to go to the school yet again but I think on this issue it is really important. Hopefully your daughter is sensible enough to rise above the comments and realise that these girls are not really her friends but once she has finished at the school these girls will probably do exactly the same to someone else. Someone who might not be as emotionally resilient and might actually think they are trans because of silly comments like this.

No doubt the girls have decided that somehow having a trans friend would be cool and something they can show off about but they need to be spoken to so they realise the potential consequences of what they are saying. Or ask the school to do some work with the whole school on sex stereotypes so they realise how narrow minded they are being.

NameChangedAgain18 · 05/08/2018 07:58

I guess at this point we can just hope that the adults recognize the children are being harassed for failure to comply with sex role stereotypes

Given the lack of critical thinking and wholesale swallowing of trans propaganda that we’ve seen from some teachers on these boards, I can’t say I’m wildly optimistic about this.

mineisarossini · 05/08/2018 08:01

This is nothing to do with being trans and everything to do with being bullied.
A few more weeks and she is finished there and can drop her ‘friends’ for some decent human beings

PinkRollsRoyce · 05/08/2018 08:01

When I was at school (about 20 years ago!) I wore DMs, trousers and had a rather unflattering haircut and other kids decided I must be a lesbian, so it’s nothing new I’m afraid, the bullying has just changed to reflect the times.

Tell her not to be afraid to stand up to them and tell her to try and make some new friends if she can, kids can be awful but at least she’s leaving soon.

AdultHumanFemale · 05/08/2018 08:09

Can't add much to excellent PPs, other than to echo Duggle in saying that the school needs to have this spelled out to them, broken down into small, digestible points which can't be argued with.
In my very 'woke' school, I can see the people who would be dealing with a referral to pastoral services not actually able to comprehend a lot of what is so clearly stated above as too busy being right on. Your DD's friends would likely get a pat on the head, not a talking to Angry

TransplantsArePlants · 05/08/2018 08:11

I also agree with Duggle. This needs spelling out

Neolara · 05/08/2018 08:22

Sounds like the adults in school understood the situation fully. I think their response towards your dd sounds appropriate. It's the kids who need to have things spelt out to them, not the adults. The school may have done this already..

Mix56 · 05/08/2018 08:22

So if she was Trans, she needs to be referred to pastoral team ?
Why ? This is all sorts of wrong.
The Trans thing has got out of control,
& these "friends" are not friends, they are bullying her

ResistanceIsNecessary · 05/08/2018 08:23

The 'friends' sound rather desperate for her to be trans so that they can parade her around as evidence of their woke credentials.

The answer to this is to challenge each and every comment with "stop being sexist" - because it is exactly what they are doing.

WhatTheWatersShowedMe · 05/08/2018 08:26

I’d invite these girls round and then tell them that their gender stereotyping bullshit is damaging, bullying and wrong.

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