Transing dead people.

[SirVixofVixHall]

I know this has been mentioned before, but I’ve just seen a thread on Twitter by @thejeffreymarsh where he is posting images of “trans and non binary “ people from years gone by. Marlene Dietrich is on there, she apparently dated people “of many genders “ that would be both SEXES then Jeffrey ? Also many other pics of men in drag and women in vaguely masculine dress who may or may not be lesbians. As most of them are theatrical performers they are mainly costumes anyway.
The ridiculousness of this . MAKE IT STOP.... AAARGHHHHH.

Bloody hell that's depressing How have we reached a point where "real women wouldn't wear trousers" has become a progressive viewpoint to hold?

gah

the idea that because Marlene Dietrich played with gender stereotypes and sometimes shagged women (did she btw?) she was trans

just fuck the fuck off

people can be gender non conforming while being perfectly comfortable in their own bodies and being very clear about what their sex is

God, how fucking depressing. Dietrich is an icon. A woman. Piss the pissing piss off. You can't have her.

Even if she did maybe she was bisexual. ??

You can't say somone was trans.

and sometimes shagged women (did she btw?)

Yes apparently, including Greta Garbo.

Not sure why this makes her somehow "trans or non-binary" mind.

Wtf

Exactly. Claiming dead people to suit your narrative is shameful. I’m waiting for them to trans living people like Annie Lennox ,Grace Jones or Marilyn.

It’s like Dr James Barry who was apparently also trans. More like the fact that she had a vagina prevented her from entering the medical profession. Trans my butt.

I think the Bronte sisters were all trans too. And George Eliot.

God, this is one of my hot buttons. Because it really is saying, if you don't act a certain way, you aren't really a woman.

It's so bloody rude.

It’s like the Mormons baptising dead people.

It's so bloody rude

isn't it though?

It just lays bare all that transgender ideology - girls are like this, boys are like that, so if you're like that god made a mistake, but don't worry, take this pill and we'll get a doctor to turn your upside down flower the right way around!

then everyone will be conforming to gender stereotypes and the genderists will be so happy!

remember to keep smiling everybody!!

This is now the 'moment' in focus on Twitter.

Propaganda, much?

Flora. Yes, exactly. Any woman who wasn’t Uber feminine is now suddenly transed. The offensiveness of that. My old headmistress, who wore tweeds and mannish sandals and looked like Margaret Rutherford, would now be a man.

it's almost like they've got no fucking clue what being a woman means and think it's just about what you wear and being sexually submissive

Yes, reminds me of this, the total lack of self awareness, the madness of this ideology. m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgayb1ez0XU.

There have been times throughout history when men made a concerted effort to erase women from the written record.
We are witnessing one of those times.

I don’t always agree with MNers on trans issues but this is one where I will hold my hands up and admit to having done this in the past and now seeing that it’s wrong (for example talking about James Barry as a trans man in a speech years ago). Everyone has the right to define themselves and you can’t make assumptions about people after they’ve died.

I mainly wear trousers and I can't wear high heels.

Am I trans now? Non binary? A cross dresser?

Why aren't women who wear trousers seen as cross dressers?

Can I get special unicorn cookies?

It makes me feel quite ill. So disrespectful.
Here is a recent thread for reference
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3305890-Historically-Claiming-People-as-Trans

Do you have a link to this chap’s specific tweets?

We found quite a few on the other thread (I mentioned the hundreds of women who disguised themselves and fought in the American civil war).

Depressingly, the idea is that any woman who rejected stereotypes and aimed for a degree of independence, must be male. Not that this provided her with a cover in oppressively patriarchal society. No, she was literally male whereas the true lady types were happy to sit home and sew samplers and simper.

I believe Louisa M Alcott has been subject to the same because she wished for the freedoms afforded to men (so made comments about how much better life as a man would have been) and created a heroine with a similar view.

It is homophobia/biphobia and misogyny.
A TRA bingo card full house.

Oh, this is infuriating. Do you reckon they'll go after gay men next? Because they've already nudged lesbians out and this is definitely shots fired at the bisexual community. How fucking dare they.

Julian Eltinge?! He was male and never said any different. If anything he was a gay man. Not that he was open about that in the 1910s and 20s...he went to great lengths to establish his male credentials when not performing, getting into fights, being a boxing fan, being photographed with women etc. He was a fascinating figure and a pioneer but he wasn't trans! Or non-binary, given that that's not a concept anyone in c. 1917 would have recognised.

If you've seen Nanette by Hannah Gadsby (on Netflix; it's wonderful). She talks about how a fan wrote to her to tell her she needed to come out as trans. Except she isn't trans, she's a butch lesbian.

I really worry that women who aren't feminine are somehow being reclassified as men, or needing to be men. I cannot understand how liberal, progressive minded people can in all seriousness uphold these rigid gender binaries. It is total nonsense.

And applying this understanding to the dead who cannot speak for themselves is shameful.

Here's the thread from Twitter, I hope it's ok to post.

twitter.com/thejeffreymarsh/status/1025586838650740736