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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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999 replies

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 29/07/2018 20:01

When you see threads plopped into FWR, especially the curious repeat of well worn subjects, I recommend you check for poster history before engaging.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads being referenced on twitter with screen shots & flagging in either MNHQ or outlets to try & get articles commissioned.

OP posts:
arranfan · 27/10/2018 16:09

there may, unavoidably, be a problem if half a dozen people make their brief rebuttal simultaneously.

And if people respond, and this is early on, the OP topic is obscured or lost. Even in a longer thread, I sometimes think, "I disagree but not enough to think it's worth disrupting or further derailing from the OP". And part of this is fuelled by experience here of threads that disappear and dispense with posters' thoughts and resources (tho' that seems to be lessening so perhaps I ought to work on losing that apprehension).

Agreed, there is no universal way to deal with this. And particularly when it feels as if different rules are being applied to different posters.

arranfan · 29/10/2018 10:53

Unsurprisingly, the Caroline Farrow thread has gone.

Message from MNHQ: Thanks for the reports on this one. We've agreed with the OP and a couple of posters that it's time to take the thread down now.

FloralBunting · 29/10/2018 10:56

Yup. A lot of really weird shit on that thread, tbh, I'm not sorry to see it gone.

arranfan · 29/10/2018 13:41

Just a reminder. A research project involving Cornell and Stanford looked at ways to automate the classification of particular categories of poster: Antisocial Behavior in Online Discussion Communities

cs.stanford.edu/people/jure/pubs/trolls-icwsm15.pdf

There's a section that Germaine Bunbury might find relevant at present, it's almost as if there can be 'sleepers' who post for a while, matching the tone of other posts and then try and move that tone to a more hostile and aggressive one. One that might almost make it seem like there are "extremists on both sides". Or they adopt the faux-naif, just wondering how to deal with this, golly it's such a conundrum approach:

Antisocial behavior, which includes trolling, flaming, and griefing, has been widely discussed in past literature. For instance, a troll has been defined as a person that engages in “negatively marked online behav- ior” (Hardaker 2010), or a user who initially pretends to be a legitimate participant but later attempts to disrupt the community (Donath 1999).

Empirically, we find that many of these banned users exhibit such behavior. Apart from insults and profan- ity, these include repeated attempts to bait users (“Ouch, ya got me. What’s Google?”), provoke arguments (“Liberalism truly breeds violence...this is evidence of that FACT”), or de- rail discussions (“All I want to know is...was there a broom involved in any shape or form?”).
...
How do (community disruptors) generate activity around themselves? Do [community disruptors] purposefully try to create discussions, or opportunis- tically respond to an on-going discussion? Here, we find that their behavior differs depending on the community (Figure 2a). On Breitbart and IGN, trolls are more likely to reply to others’ posts, but on CNN, they are more likely to start new discussions (t>9.1, p0.25). Still, across all communities, (community disruptors) appear to be effective at luring other users into potentially fruitless discussions...

arranfan · 29/10/2018 23:34

So, just as I was trying to persuade myself to be less apprehensive about threads disappearing, we seem to have another outbreak of deleted threads.

This "not an intersex gotcha, honestly" thread, that's gone?

Any others?

arranfan · 29/10/2018 23:41

Just checked by searching via Google for that "intersex gotcha, honestly" thread:

Message from MNHQ: We're getting a lot of reports from people who feel that this isn't in the spirit - we think it's best that it comes down now.

VickyEadie · 30/10/2018 08:33

I have to say that the intersex speculation thread made me queasy.

LangCleg · 30/10/2018 08:35

Yes. That was deeply unpleasant.

arranfan · 30/10/2018 08:51

tbh, I am not surprised it went away (it's why I thought Bunbury might be interested in the change in posters over time and various strategies such as the use of 'honesty/trust my good intention' markers and faux-naivety). But, I thought I might have an over-sensitive sense for that sort of thing.

VickyEadie · 30/10/2018 11:38

I believe Bunbury was rightly invoked here - she always knows.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 31/10/2018 09:04

They have a habit of taking GC arguments and just swapping them around - see current peak thread. Which reveals a complete lack of critical thinking skills and leads to some very odd posts.

CantUnderstandNoThing · 31/10/2018 09:08

Which reveals a complete lack of critical thinking skills and leads to some very odd posts.

Point taken. I'll brush up on my critical thinking skills and run any future posts by you first to check for "oddness" Hmm

LangCleg · 31/10/2018 09:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 31/10/2018 09:28

@CantUnderstandNoThing - Fair point - I think the lack of critical thinking were perhaps my own, on skim reading posts before coffee. Apologies.

CantUnderstandNoThing · 31/10/2018 09:31

Oops what a giveaway.

A giveaway of what?

IKeepFlouncing · 31/10/2018 12:08

nods atLang

Think I going to take timeout these transparent glasses giving me headache

FloralBunting · 31/10/2018 12:42

I think the thread may well have been an attempt by a regular to start one of the periodic 'Help me with my discomfort at being seen as a bigot' threads which pop up. Unfortunately, it's now being used by someone without an ounce of gender critical feeling to parade their Gospel of Shania Twain.

Ereshkigal · 31/10/2018 13:44

It didn't impress me much Floral ;)

Ereshkigal · 31/10/2018 13:44

But no, I know the one you mean :)

FloralBunting · 31/10/2018 13:48

God, it's like trying to explain to a toddler why they aren't actually invisible when they put their hands over their closed eyes.

Ereshkigal · 31/10/2018 13:51

Great analogy!

VickyEadie · 31/10/2018 14:16

It didn't impress me much Floral ;)

Coincidentally, Bunbury has an out-of-print book on her dalliances with lesbianism called "Man, I feel like a woman."

arranfan · 31/10/2018 14:21

Man, I feel like a woman.

Among my favourite #GuardianSongs were variations on this:

Prostate-haver/ejaculator, I feel like a cervix-bearer/menstruator tonight.

LangCleg · 31/10/2018 14:21

Bunbury has mentioned that the use of loaded words such as vitriol as a pre-emptive about other women and in an opening sentence from a person purporting to represent their ideological uncertainty is not indicative of a feminist sensibility.

Thread went exactly as it was intended to go from the outset.

arranfan · 31/10/2018 14:22

vitriol - Yes, on this word that is used in almost no other way in reference to social media!

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