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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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999 replies

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 29/07/2018 20:01

When you see threads plopped into FWR, especially the curious repeat of well worn subjects, I recommend you check for poster history before engaging.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads being referenced on twitter with screen shots & flagging in either MNHQ or outlets to try & get articles commissioned.

OP posts:
arranfan · 09/10/2018 10:36

On one particular thread at present, the reminder about regional differences in the 'sprinkle verse' in women's public lavatories makes me think of the above post and this random thought. There are parts of the UK where the women, by default, have thighs and glutes of steel because they always hover, and never seem to use the seat.

Apparently, this is also a skill that is displayed in the 'chair relief' position in various alleyways of some cities after closing hours.

deepwatersolo · 09/10/2018 12:42

across all communities, (community disruptors) appear to be effective at luring other users into potentially fruitless discussions.

And with striking claims that, if true, should warrant a Nobel Prize, no less.

VickyEadie · 09/10/2018 16:42

The illiterati have arrived!

And TRAs wonder why we don't want them in our safe spaces, eh?

AngryAttackKittens · 09/10/2018 16:43

Wielding a diaper fetish and a broken spellcheck they come!

VickyEadie · 09/10/2018 16:45

They really are a treat and a half, aren't they? Do they think we'll all be shocked and have hurty feelings?

arranfan · 09/10/2018 16:49

Did someone mention an implausibly non-functioning spellchecker?

--
A research project involving Cornell and Stanford looked at ways to automate the classification of particular categories of poster: Antisocial Behavior in Online Discussion Communities

cs.stanford.edu/people/jure/pubs/trolls-icwsm15.pdf

There's a section that Germaine Bunbury might find relevant at present, it's almost as if there can be 'sleepers' who post for a while, matching the tone of other posts and then try and move that tone to a more hostile and aggressive one. One that might almost make it seem like there are "extremists on both sides":

Antisocial behavior, which includes trolling, flaming, and griefing, has been widely discussed in past literature. For instance, a troll has been defined as a person that engages in “negatively marked online behav- ior” (Hardaker 2010), or a user who initially pretends to be a legitimate participant but later attempts to disrupt the community (Donath 1999).

Empirically, we find that many of these banned users exhibit such behavior. Apart from insults and profan- ity, these include repeated attempts to bait users (“Ouch, ya got me. What’s Google?”), provoke arguments (“Liberalism truly breeds violence...this is evidence of that FACT”), or de- rail discussions (“All I want to know is...was there a broom involved in any shape or form?”).

The researchers highlighted implausibly poor spelling and punctuation as characteristics of such posts. These posts tend to score a difficult readability index.

Aside from the interesting research issues, it's disrespectful to people with specific learning disabilities and it's a mess for posters like Hot Rocker who rely upon screen reading software.

This video sums up the research findings and highlights the characteristics of: Bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

heresyandwitchcraft · 10/10/2018 00:57

It seems as though a thread about definitions has brought along the usual arguments. Bunbury would be frustrated.

VickyEadie · 10/10/2018 08:12

Banbury definitely would. I'm especially amused personally by people protesting those of us pointing out Moscato's lack of 'feminine' appearance in the context of someone saying DM would be harassed in the street.

arranfan · 10/10/2018 09:28

FYI - Barnstaple Meeting thread currently hidden:

Thread hidden
This thread has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389295-barnstaple-26-10-18

LangCleg · 10/10/2018 09:32

Why? What did I miss?

arranfan · 10/10/2018 09:40

No more information than in the message. I've no idea if they don't like meetings being promoted or if it's that the thread took a turn after I last saw it?

heresyandwitchcraft · 11/10/2018 15:46

Uh oh. Another diaper expert, it seems. What's up with that?

theOtherPamAyres · 11/10/2018 22:00

Anyone know why the thread on FPFW's Advert in Metro News has gone?

I found it after an advanced search but got a "oops, page not found'

arranfan · 11/10/2018 22:06

It's still up for me - I know the mobile site is acting up badly tho'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3390365-FPFW-full-page-ad-in-the-Metro

theOtherPamAyres · 11/10/2018 23:13

Thanks Arran, Brew

Your link worked for me.

arranfan · 12/10/2018 11:30

What about this outdated item that predates your analysis but I've no intention of reading the more up-to-date links you politely give me - what-abouttery klaxon :)

Might be time to drop in the Guardian guide again:

Sea lioning

Sea lioning is the process of killing with dogged kindness and manufactured ignorance by asking questions, then turning on the victim in an instant. “In this, the perpetrator endlessly nitpicks and relentlessly pursues the topic, but oh so very politely and, when the target finally gets annoyed and retaliates, the sea lion takes on the wronged victim of abuse role,” says Hardaker.

The solution is a simple one: just don’t engage with the troll in the first place. However, this can be difficult to do – a suspected sea lion may in fact just be a genuinely curious individual looking to learn more. So rather than ignoring them outright or devoting precious time to discussing the individual merits and drawbacks of a point with them, courteously directing them to a third-party resource – a couple of links to news stories about the matter at hand – can help nullify their attempts to derail your day.

What to say: “Here’s a peer-reviewed, academically rigorous link explaining all the information you need. Have a great day!”

www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/18/how-to-handle-a-troll-and-neuter-a-sea-lion-dealing-with-online-attacks-astroturfine-trolljacking

arranfan · 12/10/2018 12:14

The what-abouterry, you're feministing wrong, and spending your money wrong is strong today. :)

deepwatersolo · 12/10/2018 12:18

Why am I always missing the action?

VickyEadie · 12/10/2018 12:22

arranfan

I know exactly which sealion you're referring to - classic presentation.

arranfan · 12/10/2018 12:24

Seem to be a couple in that thread...and popping up elsewhere...

VickyEadie · 12/10/2018 12:30

Another of one particular sealion's tactics on here and over on AIBU is the utilisation of something someone said elsewhere - in a slightly different context - as 'evidence' that ALL GC women are entirely unreasonable and 'won't listen to anyone else'.

Then, when you ask for a discussion, you simply get 'why won't you say TWAW? Why won't you treat them as women?' Over and fucking over again.

LangCleg · 12/10/2018 12:36

spending your money wrong

I might have been a tad touchy about that.

arranfan · 12/10/2018 13:52

FYI - BBC article on the ITV drama Butterly

Thread deleted
Message from MNHQ: This is a previously banned poster. We're taking this thread down now.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3392219-BBC-article-on-the-ITV-drama-Butterfly

arranfan · 12/10/2018 15:38

We may have a tactical conversion in progress:

Concern trolling
Whether deliberately or not, a number of trolls decide to couch their criticism in what they pretend are genuine concerns. It could be suggesting that an overweight person go on a diet because of the health benefits – when in fact they just want to call them fat – or saying that they dislike the tactics of feminists because they’re too militant. If only they’d be more polite, the concern troll argues, they’d get further with their goals, when in reality, the likelihood is the troll holds a totally opposing viewpoint. Such an approach, called tone policing, is one part of the concern troll’s toolkit.

heresyandwitchcraft · 13/10/2018 00:46

Urgh. It's like TRA talking point Bingo on the other thread.

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