The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

[IJustHadToNameChange]

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

Also I didn't yell, I pointed out that you are making a mistake by telling a load of women, many of whom will have experienced violence, abuse or oppression by men, that they shouldn't worry about men. That is mansplaining, because you are seeing things from a viewpoint we don't share. We have never had the privilege of living free from fear.

Would you say treating all black people with prejudice is the way forwards in this situation? If not - then why and how can you justify it for men or males or people with penises?

I am very sure that women of colour living in dangerous neighbourhoods make exactly the same kind of risk assessments about their safety as all women do. It is so habitual with women that we don't even think about it, it's a part of our existence.

Nor are women asking to be protected at all costs, we are too pragmatic to believe society would take the safety of women and children so seriously.

Women have drawn the line at the incursion of men into the handful of spaces women have fought to have to themselves.

I don't think it's even necessary to explain why, yet again. It should be enough that women say, "we are women and we need these few spaces".

It is telling that no matter how often women say no, they are ignored or called names.

I have shared female toilets with a transwoman who was a colleague and none of the women complained because we're nice like that. Which is clearly a different kind of nice than the tattooed person.

But if I went to the gym at night and was confronted by a six foot bloke with his tackle intact, in the changing room, I'd go home. So my access to a public space would be limited because I have learned what I need to pay attention to, to keep myself safe.

For some strange reason Char only threatened to rape and kill women. Nor do misogynists like Char direct their hate filled pejoratives at men, for what ought to be obvious reasons even for one as committed to willful ignorance as you are, friendly.

No because for me most part they don't live as women so they would not be entitled to Self-ID and, because transvestites do not identify as being female most wouldn't want to.

But at the moment people like Travis Alabanza, Alok, Eddie Izzard, Pips Bunce etc are forcing their way into women's spaces & women's opportunities simply because they identify as part female some of the time. And if they're refused, they raise hell on social media & batter the offending companies into submission.

And because of the trans umbrella etc, they're all blurring in with the people who have actual body dysphoria. This is doing the trans campaign no favours at all.

Bringing race in as a comparison is a tired old TRA trope, YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans. There's no comparison. Firstly, race is not a binary; sex is. Secondly men are responsible for 98% of sex crime and 90% of violent crime.

Men pose a very much greater threat to women than the other way around. Their penis is a common weapon, which carries with it the potential for disease and pregnancy.

So women therefore need spaces set apart from men, specifically when they are unclothed or otherwise vulnerable.

Women have no way to be sure if any unknown man is safe or not. But given how common sexual assaults are, it might help to think of women constantly being faced with Schroedinger's Rapist.

It's all unarguable stuff. Males have no place in women's spaces. OK, we had an honour system with certain transsexuals, but the TRAs have blown that out of the water.

I actually think we SHOULD consider the issue of race if we're going to discuss "identity" and feelings. Good ol' Rachel Dolezal, burned at the stake for daring to identify as a black woman. Never mind that she had those feelings since birth, married a black man, dedicated her adult life to advancing the cause of civil rights, and fully rejected her "birth self." And certainly it didn't matter that her genetic makeup is almost identical to that of a black woman. Nope. Not ok. Society agreed one could not appropriate the experiences of an oppressed minority and that being black isn't a feeling.

But, it's acceptable for a biologic male to be a woman. Despite far greater genetic and physiologic differences. In this case, identity and feelings are totally a legitimate basis and really all that matter.

Glad that we cleared that up. No hypocrisy here!

yourfriendlyneighbourhoodtrans you seem to be saying that men can rape women and women can rape men (even if it's not the same as legal 'rape), yes? In that case isn't there a case for sex segregated spaces where potential rapists and potential victims are segregated? QED and all that...

Of course there's that race angle, George. I remember Dolezal and Jenner hit the headlines at the same time. One brave and stunning, the other not so much.

You’re defending someone who has ‘die cis scum’ tattooed on their body and is posing showing it off with a baseball bat? Seriously?

Have you ever seen the injuries that result from being beaten with a wooden bat? Not for the squeamish. The damage caused to both bone and soft tissue is significant.

When you get something like that tattooed on your body it is a clear signal of who you are. Last summer I was in a queue behind a bloke who made me feel really uncomfortable, I wasn’t sure why. Then I noticed he had neonazi tattoos on his neck as he took his hat off. Charming.

Nobody who poses with a weapon and death threats tattooed on them is ‘a good person.’ I see that image and I see hatred of women and I see danger.

That Bowl is because you have that life experience that only women have - needing to evaluate every man, scan him for 'the signs' and having to accept that even when you get it wrong and label a 'good man' creepy as fuck, you will have taken steps to try to make yourself safer.

So seeing a man, vaguely camouflaged as a woman, wielding a bat and wearing a threatening tattoo your 'Lady Brain' screams "Get the fuck out" . Whereas a man can stand back and see the amusing side of the joke, can take his time to ponder the political relevance, nay the utter brilliance of the message.

yourfriendly you have consistently ignored most of the points many women here have made, questions they have asked you. You persist in commanding us to respond as you will and ignoring our reasoning, our lived experiences. I'll ask you again - why are you doing that?

What is it about women that makes you feel that you can mold an online discussion to the shape you prefer? What is it about the lack of compliance that makes you come back with further demands of "don't respond unless you say what I want you to say"?

We can tell you, but you won't accept the answer: You feel able to command and demand because, regardless of how uncomfortable you felt living inside a male body, you benefited from that male experience in a way no woman ever does. You have a sense of security in your opinions, your ability to have them heard that no woman ever has.

And if you are feeling a bit beleaguered, at a loss to make the posters here understand you, listen to you properly then hey! You may well have had a 'feminine' experience, possibly your first true inkling of how women live every day of their lives!!

Now tell us again what it is that we women have that you would like?

Literally anyone can be a rapist - and though yes, most women are raped by people with penises, no doubt about that. Though this isn't grounds to treat all people with penises as if they're potential rapists.

Are you in the UK? Under UK law a penis is required to rape. It is possible to be convicted as a woman as an accessory to a rape with a penis (ie holding the victim down) but that is vanishingly rare (there was a case last year I think.)

Actually, when it comes to safeguarding, treating all men as potential dangers is what happens. That’s why we have sex segregated spaces, because all men have the potential to rape, because penis.

The comparison with ‘the set of people who own jeans’ is logically incorrect. That set can be broken down further into ‘set of jeans owners with penis - potential threat’ and ‘set of jeans owners without penis’ - not a threat.

Set breakdowns work when you get to what it the core differentiators. If you can break your set down further it doesn’t work.

So jeans are not a reason to be excluded for a single sex space, but being a man is.

Logic, innit.

Our bodies are what defines us as male or female. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar

I love the way these men with their penises have now changed the narative from born in the wrong body to they are actually women with male bodies - to excuse the reason why they keep their male bodies . Nobody believes it.

Feelings don't (& shouldn't) come into it when you're accessing sex segregated spaces, what matters is the biological sexed body of the person using those spaces, and that should match those of all the other users of that space.

Your feelz are irrelevant, reality is what counts, and you are male, as is anyone if they've ever possessed a penis, and are therefore not welcome in female only spaces.

HTH.

I have no "womanly" experience that isn't directly linked (e.g. period pain) to my sexed body.

Our bodies are what defines us as male or female. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar

Woman is not a feeling. It is biological reality, grounded in genetics. It is reproductive function, female body parts (uterus, vagina, breasts etc)

Say I wanted to be 6ft4. I can't 'feel' 6ft 4 because I'm not, I'm short. I can IMAGINE what it is like to be 6ft4, but I cannot ever know because I'm just simply not.

But wouldn't it be unbelievably RUDE of me if, in my overzealous imaginings of being 6ft4 (I really, really want to be tall! I could reach shelves! I could see over crowds!) I disregarded the real, lived experience of a person who is actually 6ft4. Who perhaps told me that they bump their head all the time.

That would be, at the very least rude.

Of course, if I tried to claim to be 6ft4, no-one would believe me.

I therefore find it impossible to believe that a man can "feel like a woman". A man may feel very unhappy about being a man, but that's not the same thing at all.

The clue is actually in the name:

That's why they're called sex segregated spaces and NOT feelings segregated spaces.

Well, this has been an enlightening read this morning!

MRA talking points, lordly pronouncements, the entitlement of continued guideline violation after having guidelines brought to attention, the list goes on and on and on...

... and littlebrowndog's question still begging an answer:

What is this "woman" that you want to become?

As ever, answer came there none. I agree with the others who have basically said that running away from manhood does not a woman make.

Sorry, but I'm not buying into any of this "I'm a woman but I'm keeping my penis for reason X/Y/Z" crap. Tell that to a woman who has had a mastectomy to save her life.

I always think that when men trivialise our need for privacy in toilets it massively demonstrates how little they know about being a girl or a woman

This. It's very telling.

Dr Nicole Williams and FPFW are now continuing their scare campaign by focussing on the fact that some^ MOSTLY ALL^ transwomen still have penises.

FTFY.

People with a penis are the ones trotting round doing most of the sexual assaulting as well

They are the ones doing most of the beating up in all walks of life

And i agree bowl about the tattoos, the whole point of a tattoo is that it says something about you...tells people who can see it who you are

Or NEARLY ALL even

WTF? need coffee!

I always think that when men trivialise our need for privacy in toilets it massively demonstrates how little they know about being a girl or a woman

Yep

and as a womyn even though im not particularly worried about this aspect i know other womyn may be and i fully support them