The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

[IJustHadToNameChange]

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

I take back my sympathy .

With this particular poster anyway. I'm really trying here, but running out of patience and understanding and fucking niceness

@YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans
Why does it matter to you if a trans woman "retains" her penis? What's the rationale behind this being a big deal for you guys? Genuinely curious.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's because the penis can be, and is, used as a weapon.

I'd be as cautious about people in possession of knives or guns in places where I have not been habitualised to expect to see them.

I don't expect my DDs nursery key worker to have a knife tucked into their belt, and I don't expect the woman washing her hands next to me in the public lavatories to have a penis.

My DD may not be at risk from her knife-possessing key worker, and I may not be at risk from the penis-possessing woman next to me; but I'm conditioned to think that way by society because knife crime, and penis crime, are a fact of life.

I agree maryz. *
*
We've been too sympathetic already for people who don't give a shit about our feelings or safety.

It's just seen as capitulation and weakness, and a way to push past boundaries.

curious
"why ask women to increase their risk?"
From my perspective, you're doing the same to me by asking me to use the men's room.

"Where is your empathy? Where is your feminine understanding? [blech]"

Empathy and understanding doesn't mean I have to agree with your conclusions.

any
Thanks Any.

Take that up with men, just as I am doing now!

And you won't won anyone over with your lady brian theory either!

As I have said, many times over, do not look at women and ask why we are being nasty not nice. Look to the activists who have thrown ALL trans people under the bus and made it less and less likely that the long standing toilet status quo will continue.

That and it really isn't all about toilets, something you continue to ignore! Stop cherry picking, respond to an entire post...

Lady Brian?

Your post smacks of someone who is in the door and wants to shut it behind them.

"I'm a real woman, me, I've proved it, all those other pretendy women can keep out".

If the line isn't drawn at "men" and "women" where do you propose it's drawn? If it's a matter of safety maybe let in all the smaller men who are under 6 foot. Or weigh less than 10 stone. Or the gay men. Or the men wearing pink t-shirts. Or the men who can prove they've never been in prison. At which point do you say "now she's being silly"?

If someone took my brain out of my body I'd be dead, by the way.

No because for me most part they don't live as women so they would not be entitled to Self-ID and, because transvestites do not identify as being female most wouldn't want to.

Hi Snappity. I'd just like to reiterate that I feel we are not simpatico and for this reason I would prefer not to interact directly with you on this board. So, if we find ourselves contributing to the same threads, please do not attempt direct interaction by @ing me or quoting me and confine yourself to responding to substantive points in a general way. I feel this is best for both parties. This is a clear boundary. Please respect it. All the best and go well.

Lang, have a [hug] and some and a shit-ton of respect

From my perspective, you're doing the same to me by asking me to use the men's room.
The people who might cause you harm if you used the men's room are men. So when I see you on here, trying to guilt trip women about male behaviour, I am kind of unimpressed by your arguments. Just my perspective.

The day that men, as a group, take responsibility for their behaviour and act on it, is the day I might begin to reconsider.

Really? You're on about LadyBrain now? The only thing that makes my brain female is the fact that I've been socialised as a woman, that I've endured decades of assumptions about me because I have a vagina. Much as I'm sure you've enjoyed decades of privilege from having a penis.

Bit surely is someone doesn't wave to get rid of their penis they aren't actually a transwoman ie indeed any kind of woman?

But as I've already shown, having a male body doesn't automatically mean a man.

How have you already shown that?

And can we stop with all the 'hypothetical' situations of taking brains out of bodies, or waking up tomorrow as the opposite sex. They add nothing to the discussion.

YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans, I disagree with you on a few things but I was moved by your post about surgery and your feelings about your body and I want to say that I am sorry for your pain and the distress your body causes you. I really mean that. I hope you can find peace in yourself.

Iirc originally we did it because of sexism and thinking women couldn't handle being in society for very long without having a homely space to escape to.

Someone needs to tell Unicef they're being sexist:
www.unicef.org/gender/files/Gender_Responsive_WASH.pdf

(sadly even they daren't say 'sex' not 'gender' right now, but let's get real, menstruation is a sex-based bodily function).

Let's see, from their report it looks like less of the need for some type of 'Jane Austen'- 'homely space' that you describe, but more seeking a reduction in violence, increase in hygiene, dignity, privacy, and full participation in life.

I always think that when men trivialise our need for privacy in toilets it massively demonstrates how little they know about being a girl or a woman

I have enormous empathy for anyone who feels wronged by being born a man, when they feel that they should have been born a woman, and has been bold enough to take action to make lifestyle changes to live as the gender they feel is 'right', only to hear posters, campaigners, etc., say that no matter what they do, whether they have a GRC, no matter how well they "Pass" as a woman, they will still be male (in terms of sex) in their eyes. I can understand that it must be galling, and I can see that trans women have vulnerabilities that they may not have had if they had not transitioned.

However, I don't think it's at all fair to impose the sharing of previously segregated spaces on born women, and it is already proving dangerous to do so. I also think that young people today need to be told the truth, which is that you can't change your sex. Painful as that is to hear, you're stuck with it. You can choose to present as an alternative gender, and be legally recognised as an alternative gender, but you can't change your sex.

From my perspective, you're doing the same to me by asking me to use the men's room.

Break this down.

Why are you afraid in the men’s room? Male violence or the potential for it, yes?

Ok. So are we. We too are afraid of Male violence and that’s why we have, and are fighting for, etc segregated spaces. do you accept that reason is valid?

If so:

1. Self ID allows any man in - our safe space is now unisex. You yourself have just said you don’t feel comfortable using the men’s (I’m assuming Male violence is why) but you’re willing to have ALL women exposed to it - how can you justify that?

Self ID makes the space unisex.
Now any man can enter
Transwomen retain the offending patterns of the sex they were born - so a transwoman is the same level of threat as a Male generally.
But let’s be charitable - and just concentrate on the men that are now allowed in a previously sex segregated space. THEY are now a threat to all of us. You included, if you’re in that space.

And if the reasoning is that you’re less likely To be attacked in a unisex space that used to be the women, then you are using women as human shields.

And that ain’t ok. Is it? Or do you think it is?

Hi

I’m a relatively new member here.

I am a trans woman (or transsexual if you prefer that name) but I only can claim to speak for myself and not TRAs.

I think someone asked why so few trans women have their penis removed.

Just in answer to that there are a few reasons I can think of:

Lower surgery is major, traumatic surgery that requires the patient to be in relatively good health and some patients may have medical conditions that are too risky for surgeons to operate

A trans woman may still be going through transition and may not have yet ‘qualified’ for lower surgery, see

www.ngicns.scot.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Conditions-to-be-Placed-on-Surgical-Waiting-List.pdf

There could be personal reasons, e.g. maintaining a current relationship with a partner may be more important for them, difficult though that choice might be

It is the removal of a healthy, functioning organ that will necessitate the patient to be on synthetic hormones for the rest of their life as all natural hormone production will be impossible - so it is a major, major personal decision.

It is also an a major operation that can have severe and occasionally fatal complications, usually requires around 3 months recovery time and life long ‘maintenance’ regimes.

If you want to know more about the operation, recovery times and the life long maintenance of the constructed vagina then see the documents below:

Hospital stay
www.ngicns.scot.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/GRS-Vaginoplasty-Guidance-What-to-Expect-on-Each-Day-of-Stay.pdf

Dilation www.ngicns.scot.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/GRS-Vaginoplasty-Dilating-Information.pdf

Hope this information helps.

Thanks for the info on surgery

Tbh, though the more I am educated the more it reinforces to me that people cannot change sex. Biology. It's a bastard....but it is the truth

I agree on the biology. It sucks really bad - but that was the hand I was dealt.

I don’t claim to be a woman.
Medically I’m diagnosed as a transsexual but I prefer the term trans woman.

In my opinion, and it’s only my own, trans women are trans women not TWAW.

As I said on a post in another thread it’s the widening of the umbrella of what trans women means, that in my opinion is part of the problem, as depending on how self-ID works out eventually, there is the potential for lines to be blurred and the safety of women’s spaces to decrease.

But as I've already shown, having a male body doesn't automatically mean a man

No you haven't. A man is an adult human male. Having a male body and being an adult does automatically mean a man.

I've got a question for the transwomen on here. If it were possible for some type of therapy to be developed which would make you comfortable with your body so that you didn't need to take hormones or have surgery, do you think that would be a good solution?

I read in an article, the one about FF, that because the genitals are hidden they aren't a constant reminder, the face however is on display all the time, so it matters most.

I would be tempted this means that the TW who keep their penises care more about what people think about them.