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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

681 replies

IJustHadToNameChange · 22/07/2018 12:40

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

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Vickyyyy · 24/07/2018 17:53

From the other thread you posted

It exposes the fact that trans activists absolutely do understand the importance of single sex spaces, and the importance of not deceiving people about your biological sex. They just don’t want those rules to apply to them.

In-fucking-deed

Poppyred85 · 24/07/2018 18:08

The irony failure is just 🤦‍♀️... I know narcissists aren’t known for their insight but really this takes it to a whole new level!

Sorry you’re suffering bowl HG is horrendous. How many people have you had to try not to punch for asking you if you’ve tried ginger biscuits? [ grin]

TimeLady · 24/07/2018 19:00

Yep creepy as fuck pretty much defines spidey-sense.

Re. my weekend encounter described upthread, I also clock women who are 'mutton dressed as lamb'. Again I have no problem with that, each to their own, but either sex in inappropriate clothing shouldn't be upset or surprised if they're sniggered at.

Floisme · 24/07/2018 19:12

Oh come on.

I totally get that there's a difference between a gender non conforming male and a man getting a sexual kick out of dressing like a stereotype of a woman and dragging us all into his world. But 'mutton dressed as lamb' on a feminist board really pisses me off.

Bowlofbabelfish · 24/07/2018 19:40

About five thousand poppy

I remind them of the practice of ‘gingering’ racehorses .... Grin

Poppyred85 · 24/07/2018 19:59

Just had to look that up bowl wish I didn’t known about it when I was pregnant!

Poppyred85 · 24/07/2018 20:00

I’d not I didn’t...autocorrect fail

AngryAttackKittens · 24/07/2018 20:41

My exact kind of conversation seems to have broken out! So, I'm fine with men in somewhat feminine clothes, and very much un-fond of men who're macho. Was always a goth so I'm used to seeing men in floaty things trying to look romantic and pretty and men in panda eyeliner - both are fine. I love pretty men in pretty clothes and very much prefer a look that's more aiming for pretty and less aiming for manly man. Singer of one of my favorite bands wears skirts sometimes and it doesn't bother me because it doesn't come across as a fetish thing, he's just a bit fey and very goth.

It's not even about whether or not a look is sexualized, because like people were saying, the 80s glam rock look (and the 70s version too) was extremely sexualized, but not in a way that gave the impression that the wearer wanted to be thought of as a woman for sexual reasons. That's the thing that sets off the spidey senses, I think, the awareness that a. this person wants onlookers to think of them as "woman" and b. what they mean by "woman" is basically "fuckbot", for whichever variety of that they prefer (porny or trying to look like a little girl both register as having the same sexualized intent), plus c. the reason they're doing this in public is to force a reaction from randoms. That's a violation of other people's boundaries and bad manners in the same way that walking your partner down the street in a submissive's collar and leash is. It's involving people in your fetish without their consent, and daring them to challenge you on it so you can make a huge fuss.

There's also the "that looks terrible on you" element, and that particularly applies to the mutton dressed as lamb category where people would also side-eye a woman the same age dressed the same way. The same "wow that's not appropriate" reaction applies tenfold for people who adopt a look that's both childish and sexualized - there's no way to dress a large adult man like a female toddler and not have that look disturbing.

thebewilderness · 24/07/2018 20:45

I read about gingering in the Pratchett book Night Watch. I was hoping he made it up.

AngryAttackKittens · 24/07/2018 20:57

This is because I was fairly promiscuous in my youth, though perhaps much of my spidey sense boils down to safe men being warm and enthusiastic but unpushy.

This is such a good description, and the pushy ones resent the fact that many women can tell the difference so much. I had far too many "well why are you OK with him cuddling you and not me?" conversations with creeps in my youth.

AngryAttackKittens · 24/07/2018 20:59

Re gingering, can I suggest ginger tea? Super easy to make, just cut up some ginger, bung it in a pot with some water, and boil it for a while. The longer you boil it the more concentrated it gets. Can dilute it with more water if it gets too strong. Great for sore throats too!

BertrandRussell · 24/07/2018 21:16

Ginger tea is even nicer if you make ordinary tea and add the ginger concentrate. So good.

BeUpStanding · 24/07/2018 22:50

And I reckon some people then use the same piece of ginger for the tea...

BeUpStanding · 24/07/2018 22:51

(that they've been gingering with...)

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 24/07/2018 23:02

Oh, no. Please no. BeUpStanding! I've now got the grossest mental image. There's a horse looking into a kitchen door in it... Grin

BeUpStanding · 24/07/2018 23:10
Grin
thebewilderness · 24/07/2018 23:20

Why is there no brain bleach emoti?

GeorgeFayne · 25/07/2018 02:27

Datun

...participating in someone else's fetish.

By pretending it's not a fetish, it's a right.

Yes, 100%. THIS makes my blood boil. That my safety, my daughters' safety, my young son's safety are all at stake for an effing fetish. We're props in their creepy play, and we have lost the right to opt out.

So many excellent comments by all of you-- LangCleg, Kittens, Prawn, Floral, Lottie, Bowl, Bewilderness and everyone who is fighting this shit.

I'm saving this thread!

GeorgeFayne · 25/07/2018 02:34

Vickyyyy and Sunset

The hypocrisy makes me want to barf. Respecting boundaries? Really? REALLY?

Also, I am so damn tired of reading or hearing about how "vulnerable" they are. I am friends with a five-foot tall Vietnamese seventy-year-old woman who was assaulted in a parking lot recently. THAT'S vulnerable.

ligma · 25/07/2018 03:20

you know, that’s probably because the surgery is really fuckin expensive

AngryAttackKittens · 25/07/2018 03:25

My MIL is absolutely tiny (and not white, in a majority white area) and lives alone. The idea that some 6ft3 bloke is more vulnerable than her because he wears a skirt to work every second Wednesday makes me roll my eyes so hard it gives me a migraine.

Oscarino · 25/07/2018 03:56

There’s a real difference between someone who is dressed to look ‘sexy’ ie sexually attractive to others, and someone whose presentation is actually part of a sex act to get themselves off - exhibitionism, sissification, humiliation of the self or others, or some other kink.

I very, very strongly object to being non-consentually being part of, or even witness to, someone else’s sexual performance. It makes me very uncomfortable and if I think my discomfort is part of the scenario it makes me angry

blackdoggotmytongueagain · 25/07/2018 04:47

Just join the army, lig- all paid for. That’s why the uproar in the US after the ban. (Okay, not totally / but the GRS bill for the US military is ‘(h)uge’.

GeorgeFayne · 25/07/2018 05:00

I thought I had seen a lot. Being in medicine, I have plenty of stories of things that have gone up the butt...I'm speechless.

Looked up gingering and got this lovely little gem: munchies.vice.com/en_us/article/qkxwkd/root-ginger-is-a-dominatrixs-secret-weapon

I cannot make my stir fry the same way now.

On the other hand, the next time my bossy MIL starts lecturing me about the virtues of ginger, I'm going to be laughing. "What's that MIL Fayne? You just LOVE your ginger? You're not alone!"

Yes, brain bleach please!

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/07/2018 05:34

The trans "community" is m made up of several diverging threads, none of which have much in common. There isn't a coherent voice or message, and I don't think there can be.

This means that the loudest, most aggressive become the voice. And that voice scores own goals by not only praising revolting, abusive individuals like Stefonknee Wolscht by name, by but putting them front and centre of the movement .

It seemed almost impossible to me to read that MPP Cher TTCi DiNovo thanked [Stefonknee Wolscht] by name in testimony at the passage of [Canadian] Bill 33.

Choosing such dodgy people for prominence can only damage the interests of most of the people the trans lobby says it speaks for.